poweredbysun
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Delivery Date: 19 Apr 2012
Leaf Number: 6010

Re: Mini-DC charger Project for QC Port

Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:44 am

I would like to participate in this project, if I may.
I have Gary's famous meter. I have access to a quick charger at Van Ness Station in D.C.,
and hopefully to more, soon. And I have recordings of at least 5 quick charges I can play
back, from charging my Blue 2012 Nissan LEAF, from the Chademo.
If you get as specific as possible about the D.C. power supply, I can cobble together one
of those. I have chargers for my older EV's which might work, if I do not have to output
extreme amounts of power. I have access to 208 three phase at work, if necessary. And
even 480 three phase could be arranged, perhaps.
I keep getting off topic on my posts, but I've assembled a fleet of raspberry pi's with
attached arduino uno's and would like permission/help to try to port Gary's Can Do from a PC platform
to a Raspbian platform, for portability and cost and networking and power consumption
reasons. And maybe upgradeability to the Udoo platform if/when it becomes available.
A pi might fit inside the DC power supply....
I will try to limit my posts to be only about home brew Chademo, but I think we need one
more thread added if someone has not already, to investigate using the motor controller
as a charger, as reportedly done in the Renault EV. Someone needs to make available the specs on
how that is done and see if it is possible to do the same thing in the Nissan LEAF.
My belief is that the high price of chargers and batteries are the two remaining barriers
to widespread acceptance of EV's. It makes no sense for a "Plug", for example, to cost
$2,000 (140 amp Chademo plug), or even $200 (80 amp J1772). Maybe we need an open
source plug thread... Let me stop here before I get too far off
topic again. I just mean to say that I believe this project is what we need most now, along
with do it yourself battery fabrication 101(another needed thread- Open source battery,
and the accompanying Open source battery management system thread). :lol:
Back to the home brew chademo project, at hand.
Thank you,
Jim

GregH
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Re: Mini-DC charger Project for QC Port

Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:03 am

JeremyW wrote:The car requests the charger do an insulation test by having the charger ramp to 500v while looking for leakage current with the contactor to the battery open. After no leakage current is detected (and the charger goes to 0v), the car closes the contactor and the charger ramps up.
Who's checking for leakage prior to charge? The charger or the car? Can the charger just say "ok, we did our test" or does the car expect to measure the HV from the charger at the port prior to closing the battery contactors? Maybe I should just look at the spec...
'17 blue Volt Premier w/ACC
'12 SL black Leaf
'11 SL blue Leaf
RAV4-EV 2002-2005
Gen1 & Gen2 EV1 1997-2003
PV 2.4Kw, 10kWh lithium battery SCE TOU-DA

jclemens
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Re: Mini-DC charger Project for QC Port

Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:54 am

GregH wrote: Who's checking for leakage prior to charge? The charger or the car? Can the charger just say "ok, we did our test" or does the car expect to measure the HV from the charger at the port prior to closing the battery contactors? Maybe I should just look at the spec...
The answer is both.

The car is continuously checking for a ground fault, the service manual calls this signal an "IR short pulse" and is some kind of capacitance measurement. If the contactor closes and this value changes beyond a certain threshold, you can brick your car. (need to take to dealer to un-brick).
The car cannot check the HV leakage on the charge cable if the contactor is not closed, the charger checks this with whatever ground fault interruption circuity the designer wants to use, the impedance just needs to match the car as to not trigger a fault.
Interested in a j1772 dummy inlet to hang your EVSE when not charging?
PM me for details. or see http://erroneus.myevblog.com/buy-plastic-parts-here/

GregH
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Re: Mini-DC charger Project for QC Port

Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:50 am

jclemens wrote:
GregH wrote: Who's checking for leakage prior to charge? The charger or the car? Can the charger just say "ok, we did our test" or does the car expect to measure the HV from the charger at the port prior to closing the battery contactors? Maybe I should just look at the spec...
The answer is both.

The car is continuously checking for a ground fault, the service manual calls this signal an "IR short pulse" and is some kind of capacitance measurement. If the contactor closes and this value changes beyond a certain threshold, you can brick your car. (need to take to dealer to un-brick).
The car cannot check the HV leakage on the charge cable if the contactor is not closed, the charger checks this with whatever ground fault interruption circuity the designer wants to use, the impedance just needs to match the car as to not trigger a fault.
The car constantly checks for isolation from HV+ to GND and HV- to GND. There is a voltage sense on the DCQC port but as far as I can tell from the manuals it's only use to verify the integrity of the Vehicle's DCQC contactors.

When the charger starts up there is a 500V isolation test done on the charger. If the charger detects a fault it terminates and informs the car.

What's unclear is if the car does anything during the charger's 500V isolation test. From the car's perspective if it never sees the 500V is it going to complain? There's nothing I can find in the spec that says it should..
'17 blue Volt Premier w/ACC
'12 SL black Leaf
'11 SL blue Leaf
RAV4-EV 2002-2005
Gen1 & Gen2 EV1 1997-2003
PV 2.4Kw, 10kWh lithium battery SCE TOU-DA

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garygid
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Re: Mini-DC charger Project for QC Port

Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:32 am

These are tests that we should be able to run, hopefully within a week or so.
More info later, off to Cerritos for a LEAF Gathering now. i
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius, now for sale
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2018 Tesla Model 3
2014 Tesla S, Model 3 in 2019
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

jclemens
Posts: 168
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Contact: Website

Re: Mini-DC charger Project for QC Port

Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:47 pm

garygid wrote: ....

Another 3D model was made using Binder (?) and used to
print a 4-section 3D-Printed "plug" which will be sufficient
to hold the pins for our first experiments. No, it does not
yet have the latch and interlock, but that is being worked on.

Printed in PLA plastic, in a nearby country. :D

The handle is in two halves, connecting to a pin-retainer plate,
which attaches to the rear of the plug (pin holder part) that
mates with the QC socket.
That nearby country would be Canada printed by yours truly. And it is not Binder, though you are close, I used Blender.

Today I finally got my second unit printed. Gary has my beta release, this is v 1.0 (for pin holder and plug tip, the rest of it is still being developed)
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:121581 Follow the link for more images.
Image

This time I used ABS plastic as it is very durable in high heat (still rigid at 100C vs PLA is a soggy noodle at that temperature)
Interested in a j1772 dummy inlet to hang your EVSE when not charging?
PM me for details. or see http://erroneus.myevblog.com/buy-plastic-parts-here/

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garygid
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
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Re: Mini-DC charger Project for QC Port

Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:35 pm

jc,
I did not want to reveal your details until you were ready.
Thanks for the nice picture.

This version, with the latch, seems very nicely done.
A good choice of color, for visibility and safety.
And, the ABS plastic, although somewhat more
difficult to print, would seem to be better for this job.

I picked up 2 of our first 4 good copper power pins yesterday.
A person (who actually knew what he was doing) kindly
produced two sets of pins for us.

We are investigating silver plating, at least for the contact
portion of the pins. Any comments or suggestions in
this regard, for your needs, concerning the silver plating?

As soon as we get the silver-plating issue resolved,
we will send two of the power pins to you.

I believe that you made your set of signal pins out of 1/8" rod,
but I used a 3/16" diameter "body".

Getting the power supply current to ramp up quickly enough
to satisfy the car, without blowing something (outside the car),
is a present issue.

Cheers, and Thanks for the splendid help.

I am building a 3D Printer, but have had a lot of delays.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius, now for sale
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2018 Tesla Model 3
2014 Tesla S, Model 3 in 2019
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

jclemens
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:37 am
Delivery Date: 02 Nov 2011
Leaf Number: 003748
Location: Mississauga
Contact: Website

Re: Mini-DC charger Project for QC Port

Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:12 am

Yes Gary, thank you.

I want to add that I will provide the printed plastic parts to anyone else who has proven to have the significant investment in the electronics for developing an open source chademo charger. (the pins and other metal parts are a different story however).
The 3d printed parts are meant to enable experimentation and development, not commercial production. (though you could send the files to shapeways if you want)

I envision a charger that is portable, isolated and can do 17-20kw. A canbus controlled elcon/chinnic/tcch 8kw charger would probably do quite nicely, especially 2 of them for 16kw, this way you could have the option of running off 2 separate 240V 50a connections (like at an RV park). Or run the chargers in parallel from a 240V source on 90 amp breaker.

Thats where we need community collaboration, I have strengths in electronic hardware, and mechanical, however software programming is not really my thing.

edit: I am retracting my offer for free parts. I have planted a couple seeds now and it is time to watch them grow.
Last edited by jclemens on Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
Interested in a j1772 dummy inlet to hang your EVSE when not charging?
PM me for details. or see http://erroneus.myevblog.com/buy-plastic-parts-here/

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garygid
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Posts: 12465
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am
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Re: Mini-DC charger Project for QC Port

Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:01 am

Our experiments are progressing well, with the handshaking
and CAN communication with the LEAF's QC port doing well.

We have managed to put 10 amps into the port, with the car's
cooperation. In a recent session, while headed higher,
our reading of our "charger's" heat sink temperature got
a too-high indication from the A-to-D circuitry, and the
charging session shut down gracefully, without complaints
from the car.

We are purposely avoiding contact with any Chademo
documentation that is not freely available in the public domain.
So, please do not offer any such material.

However, we could use an expert in power supply design.
1. We need high efficiency to keep the cooling requirements down.
2. We want a properly isolated output, without a big, heavy input
transformer, which probably means a high power switching design.
3. One initial design point is to utilize 50 amps (or less), 240v normal
household or RV Park split phase power. A second step will
allow use of up to 100 amps, to allow about 22 kW charging, or
about 50 amps into the battery pack.
4. Relatively small, and portable, for use at home or on a trip
is also a design goal.
5. A DIY cost of under a few or several thousand dollars is desired.

No, at this point there are no plans to make a UL listed product.

Our first efforts are all toward understanding a safe and effective
process, initially for the LEAF.

Offers of experience or expert advice, please PM me. :D
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius, now for sale
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2018 Tesla Model 3
2014 Tesla S, Model 3 in 2019
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

JasonA
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Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 10:16 am
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Location: Sylmar, CA

Re: Mini-DC charger Project for QC Port

Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:05 am

I love this project guys!! great job and awesome work on the 3d printer stuff. I've been looking into a uPrint lately but the wife is kinda like :evil:

Anyways, one area that I might be able to help in is the DC power supply area. I love my LiPo's and DC chargers! And I mod server power supplies for alot of my flying buddies so we can charge 1-5kw units fast at the field. Fully isolated, etc.

My only thing is this, we need 400+ volts.. that's 30 units ganged together.. :lol: YIPES.. but that's 16kw of solid clean enterprise class power.. 2nd to none..

Let me see if I can find some 24v units, that'll knock me down to 15 ganged up.. and that's doable!

The most I've done is 6 in parallel but that's like a 5kw unit of Dell power supplies.. now we're talking in series!!

Fun stuff!
2012 10kw Dual LQ cooled Brusa powered Leaf "Astro"
13kw Enphase System,SolarWorld Panels, QuickMountPV- ALL USA!!
2014 Rav4 "SuperRav"with JdeMO (CHAdeMO)
2015 MS-70D

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