stjohnh
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:27 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 409675
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:55 pm

Well, I decided, after a break of several years, to check again what might be the best way to judge range near turtle. The reason is, about twice yearly I make a trip and have less than I anticipated near home (I.e. below VLBW and usually no fuel bars showing). It's important to me because, typically, it is at the end of the day, I'm tired, and even though there are numerous charge stations within a few miles of my home, I would MUCH rather make it home, relax and charge at home, than stop and spend 30-60 minutes charging when near home (no fast charge port). I have a 2013 S that has lost one bar.

A few months after buying the car in 2013, I purposefully ran the car down to turtle, taking numerous measurements the last couple of miles. Result at that time, distance to turtle seemed to be best estimated in the 0-5mile range, by looking at the minimum cell voltage. Then turtle seemed to occur very close to 3.00 volts.

Leaf Spy has a handy, adjustable, range guesstimator, which can be set to 0.5KWH (0.1KWH above turtle). Well that didn't work so well on today's test. I drove 5.8 miles from when LeafSpy reported 0.5KWH until it changed to 0.4KWH (turtle).... Hmm 5.8 miles on 0.1KWH, I think not (I was driving around the block near my home at 20-25mph, dash efficiency read 4.9-5.1mi/KWH).

I (stupidly) did not note GIDS, but did record LeafSpy SOC, which showed 7.8% when I hit 0.5KWH remaining, and gradually decreased to 4.8% at turtle. I also noted the minimum cell voltage, which matched very closely to the results I got when the car was near new. About 3.30V=2.5mi remaining until turtle, 3.20V=1.4mi remaining, 3.10V=0.8mi, and turtle at 3.01V.

Seems like either minimum cell voltage or LeafSpy SOC gives better info than the LeafSpy guesstimator using 0.5KWH remaining.

So, this post is both an FYI for those that drive below VLBW and want to know will they really make it home or not...

And two Queries, what is the most accurate way to estimate range when near turtle (is GIDS better than SOC or min cell voltage); AND Why did the car go 5.8miles on a reportedly only 0.1 KWH energy????
Blessings,
Holland

2 LEAFS, bought 1 week apart. 2013 S for me, 2013 SV is wife's. Both manufactured May 2013. I lost first bar at 36,000. Wife still has all bars at 50,000.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 12992
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:22 pm

garsh wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Interesting, because I seem to have done it anyway - without lowering the pressures and driving above 25MPH.
Perhaps your installer used cloned TPMS sensors. Then registration wouldn't be needed.
No. I bought them and the tires from Tire Rack, and they did need to be registered. The installer did nothing more than physically install them (because tire rack was late with the torque spec I needed. It's 8NM, BTW).
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14107
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:28 am

stjohnh wrote:Well, I decided, after a break of several years, to check again what might be the best way to judge range near turtle. The reason is, about twice yearly I make a trip and have less than I anticipated near home (I.e. below VLBW and usually no fuel bars showing). It's important to me because, typically, it is at the end of the day, I'm tired, and even though there are numerous charge stations within a few miles of my home, I would MUCH rather make it home, relax and charge at home, than stop and spend 30-60 minutes charging when near home (no fast charge port). I have a 2013 S that has lost one bar.

A few months after buying the car in 2013, I purposefully ran the car down to turtle, taking numerous measurements the last couple of miles. Result at that time, distance to turtle seemed to be best estimated in the 0-5mile range, by looking at the minimum cell voltage. Then turtle seemed to occur very close to 3.00 volts.

Leaf Spy has a handy, adjustable, range guesstimator, which can be set to 0.5KWH (0.1KWH above turtle). Well that didn't work so well on today's test. I drove 5.8 miles from when LeafSpy reported 0.5KWH until it changed to 0.4KWH (turtle).... Hmm 5.8 miles on 0.1KWH, I think not (I was driving around the block near my home at 20-25mph, dash efficiency read 4.9-5.1mi/KWH).

I (stupidly) did not note GIDS, but did record LeafSpy SOC, which showed 7.8% when I hit 0.5KWH remaining, and gradually decreased to 4.8% at turtle. I also noted the minimum cell voltage, which matched very closely to the results I got when the car was near new. About 3.30V=2.5mi remaining until turtle, 3.20V=1.4mi remaining, 3.10V=0.8mi, and turtle at 3.01V.

Seems like either minimum cell voltage or LeafSpy SOC gives better info than the LeafSpy guesstimator using 0.5KWH remaining.

So, this post is both an FYI for those that drive below VLBW and want to know will they really make it home or not...

And two Queries, what is the most accurate way to estimate range when near turtle (is GIDS better than SOC or min cell voltage); AND Why did the car go 5.8miles on a reportedly only 0.1 KWH energy????

Guessing you now know that Turtle is voltage controlled so setting kwh doesn't work.

As far as the 5 miles on .1 kwh. Its really all about the load on the pack. If the load is light like in your case, the battery will last longer. Look at it as someone carrying a weight by themselves for 100 yards verses being in a team of 6 carrying the weight 600 yards. There is a point where the weight is simply too much for one person but easy (at a much longer distance) with many persons. Bad analogy I am sure but the idea is very much the same.

Try using that same .1 kwh at 60 mph or with a few spirited take offs. This should show that all those measurements are guesstimates. Voltage is about the only thing being measured and they throw in a bunch of calculated and assumed values to provide you the rest.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Acura4Ever
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:47 pm
Delivery Date: 07 Mar 2018

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:33 pm

Turbo3, I have a leaf 2013 but I just install this setup. Feel like a have a new car concerning the audio/gps functionality now.

https://github.com/opencardev/crankshaf ... Crankshaft

Anyway, i'm in to be a beta tester when you're ready to jump in the android auto apps.

Thanks for your apps.
Leaf 2013
Qc, Canada
2nd lost @ 90K Km

TheMagster
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:59 am
Delivery Date: 24 Aug 2018
Leaf Number: 328283

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:35 am

I assume this has been asked before (sorry, I didn't page through all 180 pages of this thread!), but from what I've read elsewhere in this thread/forum, a GID (Gary's identification unit?) is a number that Nissan engineers made up to talk about their batteries. 1 GID roughly equals 80 watt hours.

If this is true, why doesn't Leaf Spy Pro offer a view option on the main screen in which GIDs are converted into watt hours? It seem to me that this would be a more useful metric, since watt hours is a universal unit that applies to all batteries. Also, in Leaf Spy Pro the motor's output is measured in watt hours, so it would allow for a direct comparison between the watt hour output of the motor (and other systems) and the battery's remaining charge (in terms of watt hours).

Obviously the math is quite simple, you just take the number of GIDs, multiply it by 80, and display the result as watt hours. Right?

I understand that over time one would become accustomed to thinking in GIDs, but it just seems silly to me to make up a new unit when watt hours is effectively the same thing. Again, I'm proposing this be an option in addition to displaying GIDs, as one of the various view modes that the user can toggle through.

Thanks Turbo3! I just started using Leaf Spy Pro and I'm loving it so far!
2015 Leaf SV, 25k miles, 12 bars

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14107
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:41 am

TheMagster wrote:I assume this has been asked before (sorry, I didn't page through all 180 pages of this thread!), but from what I've read elsewhere in this thread/forum, a GID (Gary's identification unit?) is a number that Nissan engineers made up to talk about their batteries. 1 GID roughly equals 80 watt hours.

If this is true, why doesn't Leaf Spy Pro offer a view option on the main screen in which GIDs are converted into watt hours? It seem to me that this would be a more useful metric, since watt hours is a universal unit that applies to all batteries. Also, in Leaf Spy Pro the motor's output is measured in watt hours, so it would allow for a direct comparison between the watt hour output of the motor (and other systems) and the battery's remaining charge (in terms of watt hours).

Obviously the math is quite simple, you just take the number of GIDs, multiply it by 80, and display the result as watt hours. Right?

I understand that over time one would become accustomed to thinking in GIDs, but it just seems silly to me to make up a new unit when watt hours is effectively the same thing. Again, I'm proposing this be an option in addition to displaying GIDs, as one of the various view modes that the user can toggle through.

Thanks Turbo3! I just started using Leaf Spy Pro and I'm loving it so far!
Because LEAF Spy does. Simply tap the the SOC area and it will toggle to GIDs. A better instruction is tapping the upper left area on screen 4. GIDs can be seen here.

FYI; GID values are user settable in the settings menu. The default is 77.5 wh/GID
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

crunchy3d
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:42 am
Delivery Date: 20 Sep 2018

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:16 am

I am LeafSpy Pro user and have some questions related to calculated kWh and Wh on LeafSpy screen. There are two explanations about the meaning of both values:
[Mar 28, 2014 4:37 am]
Turbo3 wrote:
crabasa wrote:I apologize if this has been answered, but can anyone explain the discrepancy between "kWh remaining" and "Wh used" in Leaf Spy?

For instance, today I recorded some data about my commute and noticed this:

Code: Select all

kWh remaining    Wh used
19.7             0
13.3             5927
That's 6400-ish Wh on the left and 5927 on the right. I've also noticed a similar discrepancy in other Leaf Spy datasets.

I guess what I really want to know is: which number is more accurate in terms of energy usage?

--Carter
The numbers come from two different places.

The kWh remaining is based on Gids read from the Leaf times Wh/Gid set on the Settings/Battery panel. Default is 77.5 Wh/Gid. This is the best estimate of remaining energy. However you can adjust the Wh/Gid number up or down if you feel the number is not correct for you situation.

The Wh used is calculated based on SOC from Leaf and Ahr from Leaf. This gives a rough estimate of energy used. This is an estimate only. If the battery warms up and the Leaf Battery Controller thinks the battery has more available energy it would look like regen is happening. If the the battery gets cooler the Battery Controller might lower the available energy which would look like the motor used more kw. So the kw used number can change without the Leaf moving at all. It can go up or down when you think it should do the opposite (at least for short periods).
The above explanation seems to be slightly contradictory to the following one found on "LeafSpy Pro Custom Screens" thread (July 21, 2018, 10:50 PM):
Turbo3 wrote:
mischl wrote:
- Wh counter: App Start & 1st Connect, D+C. If the value of #36 decreases, the value of #34 does not at the same time what looks a bit unusual.
....
- #36 and #34 are looking at different parameters from the Leaf and will not precisely track. One is based on Gids (#34) and the other (#36) on SOC and AHr which have a much higher level of precision. #34 being based on Gids is going to change very slowly whereas #36 is going to change every time it is sampled although the change might be so small it does not change a digit being displayed.
...
So, which value is more accurate concerning the consumed energy by the EV?

I would also like to know where can I find those two values in LeafSpy log file? The only relevant values available are Gids, SOC, AHr, Pack V, Pack A and SOH. There are no values related to kWh and Wh numbers on LeafSpy screen. If there is no chance to add them to the log, is there some formula how to calculate those two values from the variables written in the log? I think that the spent energy is very important data and should be included in the log.
Last edited by crunchy3d on Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

cwerdna
Posts: 9677
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:22 am

TheMagster wrote: If this is true, why doesn't Leaf Spy Pro offer a view option on the main screen in which GIDs are converted into watt hours? It seem to me that this would be a more useful metric, since watt hours is a universal unit that applies to all batteries.
...
Obviously the math is quite simple, you just take the number of GIDs, multiply it by 80, and display the result as watt hours. Right?

I understand that over time one would become accustomed to thinking in GIDs, but it just seems silly to me to make up a new unit when watt hours is effectively the same thing. Again, I'm proposing this be an option in addition to displaying GIDs, as one of the various view modes that the user can toggle through.
Please see my reply at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 53#p537453, esp what Turbo3 stated.

As already stated, the default is 77.5 watt-hours per gid. Sure, you can take 77.5 watt-hours/gid as gopsel but I wouldn't.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

crunchy3d
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:42 am
Delivery Date: 20 Sep 2018

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:16 am

@Turbo3, since there was no comment regarding the Log file, I'd like to ask again if there is any chance to add remain kWh and spent Wh (on LeafSpy screens 3 and 4) to LeafSpy Log file? If not, could you just give me/us the equation you were using to calculate those values?
I suppose that the kWh value is calculated directly from GIDs:
kWh value = GIDs * 77.5
However, how the spent energy in Wh value is calculated?

crunchy3d
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:42 am
Delivery Date: 20 Sep 2018

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:28 am

Turbo3 was last active on Nov 18th 2018. I suppose that the development of LeafSpy is terminated. It's a pity.

Return to “LEAF CANBus”