I stand corrected on the warranty. The Beetle I was referring to was was the old air cooled "bug". My points were that it was easy to repair and how many there were, not how reliable it was. As far as Tesla's battery pack goes, yes there have been failures and even a few fires but overall the battery has held up well. Go look at the battery degradation plots. We both know that electric cars are much less prone to mechanical failures then ICE cars simply because there are fewer mechanical parts in in an electric. If an average ICE car lasts 10-12 years then it is not unreasonable to expect an electric car to last 15-20 years with a battery replacement. Indeed it's far more likely that an electric will be retired due to body rust or interior wear and tear rather than a mechanical failure. Should Tesla's million mile battery come to pass, it's likely that the car will be retired due to wear and tear long before the battery fails.cwerdna wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:32 amviewtopic.php?p=558262#p558262 has a pointer to a couple Model 3 pack failures that I collected in a narrow window of time.
johnlocke: Not sure if you ever saw my post at viewtopic.php?p=553832#p553832.No it is not. The Model 3 warranty is 4 years/50K miles: https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty.New Vehicle Limited Warranty
Your vehicle is protected by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. The Battery and Drive Unit in your vehicle are covered for a period of:
Model S and Model X – 8 years (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015, which is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles, whichever comes first).
Model 3 - 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
Model 3 with Long-Range Battery - 8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
These warranties cover the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla, which occur under normal use.The VW Beetle (I'm talking the FWD water cooled version that was recently discontinued) in the past had a terrible reliability record. It isn't any simpler than other ICEVs of similar size and price. Looking at CR, it look like VW finally got their act together with only 1 year of below average reliability, 3 years of average and 1 year of above average reliability. For the years before model year '12, they have insufficient data.
Did you ever find a reputable source for this?
Other than a twitter feed from Musk, no. Then again, road damage would be covered under their comprehensive insurance and the cost quoted by Musk was for replacement of the internal battery modules only not the entire pack. In other words, a pack rebuild where the old modules could be reused for some lesser use.cwerdna wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:47 pmDid you ever find a reputable source for this?
Here are two folks who had some sort of road damage to their 3 pack and were quoted $15K:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... nt.151862/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ed.156605/
johnlocke thanks for this suggestion. 12 days ago I bought a 2016 SL with 21.5K miles from a Nissan dealership that bought it from Nissan as a recent off lease car. It came with 9/12 SOH bars and a fully charged range of 70 miles. While I expect it is the BMS issue I am first trying to see if the range can be improved before requesting the software update.johnlocke wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:48 pmTry doing some dc fast charges. I'd try to get in 2 or 3 level 3 charges followed by topping off at home. Try to run the battery down to below 30% before charging. It may help to reform the cells. Since you're on a lease the battery dying is a moot point. If it doesn't improve after a couple of fast charges, I'd complain to the dealer and Nissan. The car is marketed as having a 30 KWH battery and the normal reading is 79-80 AH. I'd at least get it on the record that the readings are low. You might also see what the range is to Low Battery Warning. Low Battery Warning occurs at around 13% of charge so multiply your average mi/KWH by 26 KWH (87%) and see if it comes close to what you got. Hope that helps.jjgilham wrote:I drive about 1250 miles a month. My commute is 40 miles round trip and I get a good dose of errands and I generally have an even mix of highway and city driving. Most of my highway trips are short (3-10 miles). I do L2 charging at home almost exclusively. I live in Seattle so heat is not typically much of an issue.
Today my stats were:
odo 1020 miles
The Hx is really bothersome to me although it doesn't seem anyone really knows what it means. This is about what my 2013 was I turned it in after 43k miles and close to 3 years.
Dave thank you for the deep cycling info and your blog link.DaveinOlyWA wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:19 amit would be easier if you read my blog. have several entries talking about this. it also provides a lot minute details.johnlocke wrote:Could you explain how you go about changing the Hx value? It might be useful for us to know how to change it and how to improve the value. It might at least explain why it changes and what the effect is on the battery.DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Part of the reason is top end balancing. the balancing is based on the voltage of the highest cell. going beyond this will cause damage to the cell if allowed to charge beyond the high end cut off, right?
Problem is that when this cell hits it, the other cells are at a varying distance below the top. This is where you see differences in GIDs and ahr.
Now keep in mind; cell balancing goes on all the time but the current is very small. This is part of the reason why the charge lights remain on after the charge has essentially ended. There will be times when the charge will reinitiate because cell balancing dropped the voltage of the highest cell sufficiently to restart it.
So top end balancing becomes critical if you need the maximum range. BUT, if you don't need the range, using the middle range of your SOC is the recommended method for increasing your long term viability. I The best way to attain good balance is deep cycle charging but must be done every day for at least 3-5 days in a row.
http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2016/05 ... 36000.html
a few things to take note of; the voltage delta at 57% SOC. Now seeing this at full charge is not unusual but at half? that is good balance.
Before the experiment I was at 59 ahr, 92 Hx, Kwh available 20.0
This pix was taken after the update that shows the date so that is obvious but you can also judge by mileage as well.
here is pix from LAST year. now my stats suck right? same car, same pack, same driver, same location so what changed?
I was simply charging with a profile that likely resembles yours. charging maybe 4-5 days a week, never hitting full charge or rarely hitting full charge. SOC ranging from 20 to maybe 85% but mostly in the 30 to 70% range.
This screenshot was taken on the first full charge after only 8 days.
FINALLY; I mention this last because if I mentioned this first, you would (like most here) stop reading. I believe the LEAF BMS was reprogrammed to hold more back to enhance longevity but will also allow a deeper charge if it feels you need it. So by driving a lot of miles in a short period of time, I think I am fooling the LEAF into thinking I am on a roadtrip so because of that, the LEAF BMS is allowing more range to be available.
Sound far fetched? Well, I guess that is the advantage of having my own blog; I get to make all the rules!
NOTE: Message at 5/2/19 was incorrect. I did NOT drop to 10 bars at that point, but I have now.JTim wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:30 am2nd bar lost [10 Battery Capacity Bars Remaining]JTim wrote:First battery capacity bar gone, 3/17/17JTim wrote:
update, not noted in original:
average kW= 4.5
QC = 3
GIDs 327, AR 71.55
Update 1/28/17 (1 year anniversary of 1st Leaf Spy check)
ODO 5,593 (Not noted in original post, ODO ODO 571.7)
Cross-posted to: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606
Manufacture date from inside car door is 10/15 *NOT* 2016 as I originally posted
10 QC / 139 L1/L2
Charging habits: mostly from 20% to 80%, a few to 100%, from memory, 2 QCs in 97-degree temperatures, one or three times car sat more than 4 hours at 100% charge in the heat, and maybe twice (from memory) at 95% charge more than 12 hours (in a garage -- those times I misjudged thinking it would be a busy day, so fully charged ran short errands, car got to 95% at about 3pm, then sat that way until the next morning).
Ah=54.54 (climbed to 58.25 after driving)
14 QCs, 276 L1/L2 [10 Capacity Bars]