rainnw
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Location: Seattle

Re: SOC data: 281-based, New-Bars

Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:43 pm

Herm wrote:
rainnw wrote: If these cells were actually charged all the way to 4.21 volts (aka, true 100%), you would see a bend at the start as well. interesting....
Thats crazy talk, 4.15v is really pushing it.
No, its really not. A lot of lithium ion chargers will actually charge to this voltage per cell. Its a great way to reduce battery life for very little extra capacity.
It looks like the slope at 175 (raw) SOC is only half of the slope below 50 SOC. Therefore TWICE as many miles per bar in the middle than at the low-SOC end.
Lithium ion cells will have an immediate drop, flatten out near their average voltage (3.75, for example) and drop down again rapidly. This makes perfect sense. I am glad to see the "100% SOC" is after this first drop, which indicates that even the 100% SOC is conservative.
Ordered 11/24/2010 (November)
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garygid
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Re: SOC data: 281-based, New-Bars

Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:08 am

These are NOT "normal" Li-ion cells. Yes, their voltage drops faster at the beginning and end of the "usable" capacity. The center portion slopes more than many other Li-ion chemistries.

So they are similar, but not the same as other cell constructions.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
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TonyWilliams
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Re: SOC data: 281-based, New-Bars

Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:13 am

garygid wrote:These are NOT "normal" Li-ion cells.
Here's the data I dug up on the battery from a Nissan press release last year:

Type: Laminated lithium-ion battery
Total capacity (kWh): 24
Power output (kW): Over 90 (the motor is 80kW)
Number of modules: 48 (192 cells)

Battery pack contents:
-Positive electrodes – Lithium manganate
-Negative electrodes – Carbon

Another quip from this forum:
Comparing it to the Chevy Volt battery, " While both packs are basically LiMn2O4, the LG Chem battery does blend in some nickel and cobalt, which presumably we won't see in the Nissan battery until Gen II."

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evnow
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Re: SOC data: 281-based, New-Bars

Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:37 am

TonyWilliams wrote: Another quip from this forum:
Comparing it to the Chevy Volt battery, " While both packs are basically LiMn2O4, the LG Chem battery does blend in some nickel and cobalt, which presumably we won't see in the Nissan battery until Gen II."
Not correct - Nissan's battery already has some other elements - but first time I've read this about LG.
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GregH
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Re: SOC data: 281-based, New-Bars

Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:18 pm

Who out there still gets 281 on a full charge? The last few times I forced a full charge (vs my normal 80%) I ended at 275 or 276.. The most I'd ever seen was 280.
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mwalsh
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Re: SOC data: 281-based, New-Bars

Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:27 pm

GregH wrote:Who out there still gets 281 on a full charge? The last few times I forced a full charge (vs my normal 80%) I ended at 275 or 276.. The most I'd ever seen was 280.
Not me. Best I've done thus far has been 276 also. Though I'm now beginning to accept the variance as "normal".

Edit: Make that 277.
Last edited by mwalsh on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 86,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
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Ecopia 422+ tires
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surfingslovak
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Re: SOC data: 281-based, New-Bars

Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:36 pm

GregH wrote:Who out there still gets 281 on a full charge? The last few times I forced a full charge (vs my normal 80%) I ended at 275 or 276.. The most I'd ever seen was 280.
That would correspond to a capacity variation of 1.5-1.8%. I hope you don't mind a few questions. Does this depend on ambient temperature? I've noticed that you took delivery recently, but was this number higher in the past?

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garygid
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Re: SOC data: 281-based, New-Bars

Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:54 pm

Does anybody know how to get their LEAF to do more/some/many Equilization cycles?

After the battery is well equalized, does the 280/281 at "full" become easier to achieve.

For now, we have these possible reasons for "full" readings around 275:

1. the battery might be un-ballanced (and charging must stop because the highest cell-pair is "full", but the pack voltage is not at its equalized maximum)

2. the battery might have diminished capacity (but, it is not clear that a lower capacity would show up in this "SOC" value, especially if it is pack voltage-based)

3. some temperature effect (but that is unlikely a factor for mwalsh)
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
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2011 LEAF, 2014 Tesla S85
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mwalsh
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Re: SOC data: 281-based, New-Bars

Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:56 pm

garygid wrote:Does anybody know how to get their LEAF to do more/some/many Equilization cycles?
I'd like to know that too!
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 86,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

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garygid
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Re: SOC data: 281-based, New-Bars

Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:56 pm

Hint:
The LEAF can slow-discharge "high" cells for about 50 minutes almost any time, but the following "boost" ("sip" of e-fuel) can ONLY happen if the LEAF can still get AC Power to "charge" for a few minutes more.

My Maple LEAF almost always stays plugged in long after 100% or 80% charging is initially "complete", allowing it to equalize-and-sip if it wants to.

If unplugged (or outside an EVSE's timer window), the LEAF cannot take a "sip" to top-up after the slow-discharging has been done.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius
2011 LEAF, 2014 Tesla S85
2018 & 2019 Tesla Model 3
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
Craigslist: Xm5000Li Electric Motorcycle

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