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gbarry42
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Delivery Date: 06 May 2011
Location: Moonlight Beach

Re: 281 is not the maximum SOC value

Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:09 am

For reference, the few times I have charged (L2) from 80% to 100%, it took about 90 minutes (or 1 orbit :-) . Compare that to the times the OP saw.

Also, the cells in the pack will bypass themselves when they reach full charge. This lets the other cells "catch up"--this is the "balancing act". Also, the car will terminate charging when it figures it's done. All this means that the charger can't overcharge your pack even if it wants to.
And there goes the first capacity bar! At 24,000 mi on 9/9/2013.
Second bar at 30,500 mi on 2/7/2015.

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ebill3
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Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7964
Location: Puyallup WA

Re: 281 is not the maximum SOC value

Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:03 pm

gbarry42 wrote:Also, the cells in the pack will bypass themselves when they reach full charge. This lets the other cells "catch up"--this is the "balancing act".
Interesting. It may have been posted, but I have missed any definitive statement that actual balancing occurs and the method used. It is assumed that balancing occurs at 100% charge, but I wonder if that is really in effect during DC quick charge. Do you have a reference for the method? Thanks.

Bill
All electric - red LEAF, green Tesla S. No ICE.

Danal
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:07 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Oct 2011
Leaf Number: 3914

Re: 281 is not the maximum SOC value

Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:03 pm

From the service manual:

HOW TO ADJUST CELL CAPACITY
During cell capacity adjustment, the capacity of each cell is estimated based on the no-load voltage when the
system starts, and the capacities are adjusted so that they are all at the target level. The voltage of each cell is
detected inside the Li-ion battery controller. The bypass switches are then turned ON to discharge the cells
that have excess capacity. In this way, capacity adjustment by the Li-ion battery controller allows the capacity
of all cells to be fully utilized.



This followed by a diagram that shows a "bypass switch" wired in parallel with each cell. In reality, I'd be fairly certain what they show as a cell in this diagram is pysically a 2P group. All circuitry is on an ASIC inside each module. Therefore, I'd expect 2 ASICs per module.
2011 Pearl White SL + QC
Bought off lot Oct 29, 2011
EVSE Upgrade charger; self-installed 240V J6-20 receptacle in garage
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ebill3
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Leaf Number: 7964
Location: Puyallup WA

Re: 281 is not the maximum SOC value

Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:38 pm

Danal wrote:From the service manual:

HOW TO ADJUST CELL CAPACITY
During cell capacity adjustment, the capacity of each cell is estimated based on the no-load voltage when the
system starts, and the capacities are adjusted so that they are all at the target level. The voltage of each cell is
detected inside the Li-ion battery controller. The bypass switches are then turned ON to discharge the cells
that have excess capacity. In this way, capacity adjustment by the Li-ion battery controller allows the capacity
of all cells to be fully utilized.



This followed by a diagram that shows a "bypass switch" wired in parallel with each cell. In reality, I'd be fairly certain what they show as a cell in this diagram is pysically a 2P group. All circuitry is on an ASIC inside each module. Therefore, I'd expect 2 ASICs per module.
Thank you for that reference. So it is a discharge of high cells. And, it certainly must be the discharge of a parallel pair.

I'm enlightened :idea:

Bill
All electric - red LEAF, green Tesla S. No ICE.

vegastar
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:29 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5564
Location: Portugal

Re: 281 is not the maximum SOC value

Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:14 am

Today I restarted the L2 charging 2 times after it stopped and it reached 282 gids.

It charged from LBW to 277 gids and after 1 hour I started the charge again and in 10 minutes it reached 281 gids. Before stopping, the charging power dropped to 1 kW and climbed again to 3 kW various times. Could it be the pack balancing?

I waited another 20 minutes, started charging and in 2 minutes the charging stopped and reached 282 gids.
2011 Nissan LEAF since 2011-07-07, 151000 km on 2018-03-03, 7 bars, 37.9Ah.

LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 1855
Location: Phoenix Area

Re: 281 is not the maximum SOC value

Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:01 pm

DarkStar wrote:
LEAFfan wrote:What kind of QC did you use because the Blink QC seems to operate much differently than the one you used. The Blink one charges to whatever you set it to and it makes no difference at what SOC % you start from. However, I found that to get an 80% charge (78-79% actual), you have to set it to '90%', and it will charge a little faster (about 23 mins.) when you are down to two bars or less. Also, to get a 100% charge takes an additional 32 minutes (after the 90%) and it only takes it to 97% SOC. I can't get the raw numbers yet. Since QCing, I now get 81.8% for an 80% charge on L2 where as before QCing, I usually always got 76.8%. I haven't charged to 100% yet on L2 since the QCs, but the most I've gotten on L2 is 94%. I'm going to 100% charge later today/tonight for tomorrow. I'll probably get close to 100% now (Edit: I predicted correctly...99%!).
HAPPY THANKSGIVING Everyone! :D
FYI, the Leaf still does take priority on the Blink QC units. If you're below 50% SOC, the Leaf will stop charging at 80% SOC, regardless of what the DC Quick Charger is set at. If you're over 50% the Leaf won't attempt to stop charging until it reaches 100%.
I haven't tried QCing over 50% because I've always been around 8%-30% SOC when I've used it. Next week, I'll charge when it's above 50%/7 bars and I'll let you know if it doesn't stop at 80% (set to 90% on the Blink). I need to correct you though on the part about it will stop charging at 80% regardless of what the Blink is set to. When you are at 30% (actual) SOC or lower, it will shut off at 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%, 60% or which ever percentage you set it to that is under '90%' when you are under 30%. I've already done that so I know.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
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garygid
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Re: 281 is not the maximum SOC value

Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:19 am

1. One Blink QC is described a Start/Stop only unit, another as having "Charge-To" settings.

How are the settings accessed on the "setable" Blink QC?

2. The Cell-Pair bypass is unlikely to bypass (discharge from the cell-pair) more than ABOUT one amp (4 watts), PERHAPS up to around 2 amps (8 watts). In any case, the max-bypass is "N" amps.

When a cell-pair is "full" (cannot tolerate further charging), the Pack charging current MUST drop to "N" or less amps (or, most likely, OFF), even if the "bypass" circuits on the highest cell-pairs are turned ON.

So far, we have no indication that the bypass circuits are activated WHILE actively charging the Pack. Most likely, the bypass "equalization" comes on after charging is "complete".

Although use of the bypass is possible when the LEAF is first turned ON, as part of a startup or calibration routine, the time period between ON and Driving is usually WAY too short to accomplish any "equalization".
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
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LEAFfan
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Re: 281 is not the maximum SOC value

Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:33 pm

garygid wrote:1. One Blink QC is described a Start/Stop only unit, another as having "Charge-To" settings. How are the settings accessed on the "setable" Blink QC?
After you enter your zipcode, it tells you to connect the charging handle, then a screen pops up with all the different percentages of charge that you may choose. To get '90%' (80% charging), you have to select 'more options' and then it shows you 90% and 100%. After you select your %, you push the 'Charge' button on the screen. It tells you at what percent SOC (actual) you started from and when it ends, tells you how much time it took and to what SOC% it is. However, when it says '90% charged, I either have 79% SOC on the gauge or 80%. The techs explained to me why I'm getting more SOC now with L2 charging (82% at 80% and 99% at 100% charging) than I used to. It's a 5% increase so far. It's definitely from QCing, but it isn't really balancing the cells per se such as with L2 charging, but it allows a higher % now because of QCing. I hope this explanation makes sense. :)
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

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garygid
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Re: 281 is not the maximum SOC value

Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:51 am

"the techs explained to me why"...

Did they just say "yes, it went up", or
did they actually explain WHY it went up?
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2010 Prius
2011 LEAF, 2014 Tesla S85
2018 & 2019 Tesla Model 3
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
Craigslist: Xm5000Li Electric Motorcycle

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