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DeaneG
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Leaf Number: 594
Location: Cupertino, CA

Re: Solar Edge Optimizers?

Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:08 am

RegGuheert wrote:
DeaneG wrote:How exactly do you turn on temperature plotting on the enlighten website?
See this post and this addition for instructions.
Got it, thanks. I went back over the thread but missed the additional instructions. Would have been nice if Enphase didn't hide it so effectively!
White SL w/L3, 3kWDC Solar PV

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RegGuheert
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Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Solar Edge Optimizers?

Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:19 am

DeaneG wrote:Got it, thanks. I went back over the thread but missed the additional instructions. Would have been nice if Enphase didn't hide it so effectively!
You're welcome!

Yeah, it's pretty well hidden. I also find it frustrating that they do not put a Y-axis on the graph, especially since the old site had one.

So, what kind of temperatures do you see in your inverters? My maximum temperature occurred one year ago tomorrow with one module reading 149F.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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DeaneG
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Re: Solar Edge Optimizers?

Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:51 am

RegGuheert wrote:So, what kind of temperatures do you see in your inverters? My maximum temperature occurred one year ago tomorrow with one module reading 149F.
130-140F peak temperature on a 100-degree day.
White SL w/L3, 3kWDC Solar PV

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RegGuheert
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Re: Solar Edge Optimizers?

Wed May 06, 2015 7:03 am

Just a couple of follow-ups to this old post:
Solarpro wrote:The SolarEdge inverter and power optimizer combination is a much better buy than micro inverters when it comes to performance and reliability.
The performance of the SolarEdge inverters is inferior to the M215s, as I will discuss below. With regard to reliability, this may be true when comparing the SolarEdge product with the now-discontinued M190s, but the M215s have a field-demonstrated MTBF of approximately 1000 years, which is more than sufficient for the application. I have seen no data on the measured MTBF of the SolarEdge PowerOptimizers. The SolarEdge inverter, OTOH, only has a design lifetime of 18 years and only comes with a 12-year warranty, which is less than half the warranty provided by Enphase.
Solarpro wrote:Second, the Enphase 215 is only rated for 96.3 maximum efficiency and a CEC weighted efficiency of 96%. SolarEdge offers a considerably higher peak efficiency rating of 98.3% and a CEC weighted efficiency of 97.5%. This may not seem like a big difference but when you consider the 30 to 40 years life expectancy of your solar panels, the difference in efficiency will add up to considerable amount of power.
I agree that the small differences in efficiency will add up to a considerable amount of efficiency over the life of the units. But the efficiency difference is NOT in the direction which you have indicated. Instead, Enphase microinverter-based systems have been demonstrated to produce over 2.5% MORE electricity than a comparable SolarEdge system. For a 10kW system in my climate, that equates to about 10 MWh less production from the SolarEdge system versus the Enphase system. At $0.20/kWh (estimated average price for electricity over the next 25 years, probably conservative) that is an additional $2000 worth of electricity harvested by the Enphase system which would be lost by the SolarEdge system. If you add in the cost of a second central inverter, then you are faced with a benefit of over $5000 by using the Enphase inverters over the life of the system.

The coming support for battery backup using the Tesla PowerWall is a nice feature of the SolarEdge system, but note that the addition of a battery will further lower the efficiency of the SolarEdge solution.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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DuncanCunningham
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Location: Bountiful, UT

Re: Solar Edge Optimizers?

Wed May 06, 2015 9:13 am

After reading through this, I wish I'd paid more attention in that Electronics class when I was 16. I guess I'll have to either trust an installer, make friends with an electrical engineer or learn it myself.
Statler: Wake up you old fool. You slept through the show.
Waldorf: Who's a fool? You watched it.

2015 Leaf S (leased until May 2018, Bought out in Jan 2017)
2012 Leaf SL (purchased May 2015)

LKK
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Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:27 am

Re: Solar Edge Optimizers?

Wed May 06, 2015 10:11 am

I spoke with the SolarEdge folks when considering another array for my home. According to them their product is basically a DC-DC converter. At low light levels the DC voltage generated by the solar panel are too low for the inverter. They have a module on each panel to jack-up voltage to a usable level as long as there is some light. The output of these modules are then sent to a special inverter to tie into and produce grid voltage. The advantages they cite are longer electric producing periods by being able to turn on earlier (first light) and stay on later, even a bit after sunset. They also say their DC-DC converter allows a panel in partial shade to produce more power than a microinverter solution.

They guaranteed a significantly higher average power production than what the Enphase solution but in the end I went with the Enphase 250watt micrometers. The cost was lower and at the time I was doing a minor home remodel. The electrician gave me a good price on his work if I paid full price on the solar installation. So considering the tax implications, this was the better deal. I am none the less very impressed with the SolarEdge technology.

Valdemar
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Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Solar Edge Optimizers?

Wed May 06, 2015 10:56 pm

I've just installed a 9kW system with a 10kW Solar Edge inverter/p400 optimizers, LG 300 watt panels. The reasons I chose SE above micros were already mentioned above, but here they are just in case:

1. Free per-panel monitoring portal.
2. Simpler electronics on the roof, hopefully less chance of failure where access is more difficult.
3. To minimize clipping.
4. Cost.

The inverter comes with 12-year warranty, extended warranty up to 25 years is available for purchase. Optimizers are covered for 25 years, parts and labor. Enphase doesn't cover labor.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

chuck101
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:17 am
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2015
Location: Ft. Walton Beach, FL

Re: Solar Edge Optimizers?

Thu May 07, 2015 11:32 am

I am in the process of installing 20x 255 watt suniva panels on my south facing roof.
I am going with a single sunnyboy inverter for the following reasons:

1. Keep it simple stupid. More gear is more chance for breaking.
2. My roof gets good sun without shading
3. I am trying to do this as easily to install, maintain and as low cost as possible while purchasing good parts.
4. I will be installing off this myself with help from dad, who is licensed electrician in my state.
5. Nothing proprietary

All said and done, I will have a 5kw system for just over $5 grand installed.
This is before the 30% federal rebate, which will take it down to $3500. At this price, it will pay for itself in 3 years max.
It is all about perspective.
2012 Leaf

Valdemar
Posts: 2664
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Solar Edge Optimizers?

Thu May 07, 2015 12:24 pm

chuck101 wrote:I am in the process of installing 20x 255 watt suniva panels on my south facing roof.
I am going with a single sunnyboy inverter for the following reasons:

1. Keep it simple stupid. More gear is more chance for breaking.
2. My roof gets good sun without shading
3. I am trying to do this as easily to install, maintain and as low cost as possible while purchasing good parts.
4. I will be installing off this myself with help from dad, who is licensed electrician in my state.
5. Nothing proprietary

All said and done, I will have a 5kw system for just over $5 grand installed.
This is before the 30% federal rebate, which will take it down to $3500. At this price, it will pay for itself in 3 years max.
It is all about perspective.
Another perspective is that SE with optimizers or micros will produce more energy over long term than a simple string inverter even in a situation with no shading, so you may save up front but get less benefit over useful life of your system which is more than 20 years. Not to mention you can easily identify an underperforming panel with SE/Micros, and it can go unnoticed for long time with a string inverter. Given you're saving a lot on labor already and likely will later on repairs, and your relatively low panel count I see little reason not to spend a little more for micros to get the benefits, just my 2c.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

chuck101
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:17 am
Delivery Date: 05 Apr 2015
Location: Ft. Walton Beach, FL

Re: Solar Edge Optimizers?

Thu May 07, 2015 12:37 pm

After 3 years, I am on the gravy train even if my system makes 20 watts. (It won't, but for our conversation's sake.)
I see your point, but a different setup is unnecessary for me per the points I posed. Just saying.

Simple is good. Cheap is good. 3 year payoff is excellent, and I personally think somewhat unheard of in a state with no rebate.

I was quoted 17k installed from local installers for this same system.
2012 Leaf

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