2k1Toaster
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Fri May 01, 2015 12:38 pm

AndyH wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:Supposedly $3500 for 10 kwh
I thought I heard Elon say the $3500 was for 'installers' and assumed wholesale. I see on the Powerwall site, though, that it's listed as $3500 without qualifiers.

http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

I got a chuckle out of this:
Both are guaranteed for ten years and are sufficient to power most homes during peak evening hours
The 10kWh model will run an efficient off-grid house for 2.3 days...
Or my house for 5 hours max, 3.5 hours nominally. So it would work for peak times only in my case.
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JimSouCal
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Fri May 01, 2015 12:57 pm

In theory, I am very fond of this idea. I'd be inclined to install the unit away from the house in a utility room made out of cinder block, in the same manner I might store propane tanks or gasoline, vented, but not in my attached garage... Paranoid or circumspect...?

2k1Toaster
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Fri May 01, 2015 1:31 pm

JimSouCal wrote:In theory, I am very fond of this idea. I'd be inclined to install the unit away from the house in a utility room made out of cinder block, in the same manner I might store propane tanks or gasoline, vented, but not in my attached garage... Paranoid or circumspect...?
Only if you charge all your cell phones and laptops in that outdoor shed too.

Make sure it is insulated so the battery doesn't get too cold...
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AndyH
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Fri May 01, 2015 1:51 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:
AndyH wrote:Nothing complex about this stuff at all.
That's a technologically privileged view. Home solar is great for hobbyists and nerds and that's what needs to change. IMO Tesla didn't go far enough here to create an offering with mainstream appeal.
With respect, LTLFT, I'm on record throughout this forum suggesting that one that buys PV and an inverter ONLY capable of being grid-tied is buying half a system. This was validated in a number of threads where other members complained in surprise when they realized only after they wrote the big check that their green electricity would drop off-line when the grid fails.

There are grid-tied/grid-interactive inverters today that can not only do the PV-grid side of the job, but can also charge a battery, and act as the 'generator automatic transfer switch' in the event of a grid failure - so all the critical pieces/tech/knowledge already exists. The only thing that might be missing is the ability to handle a 400V battery rather than a more typical 24 or 48VDC pack, but as that's a typical grid-tied PV voltage level, I expect the 'plug and play' inverter for residential users is already in the works.

Finally, I think that Musk had to omit the inverter part right now (if in fact he did) as, thinking ahead, he apparently intends that the battery will be part of a future smart grid that allows for bi-directional use the way a V2G car battery can be used for grid storage, frequency stabilization, etc. I don't know of any widespread use of that in the US yet outside of utility-scale storage, so he's deploying the 'big pieces' that can be upgraded once the rest of the grid is ready.

If you want to know more about the tech details, ping Reg or GRA - I believe they've both installed on- and off-grid PV systems.

edit...typos
Last edited by AndyH on Fri May 01, 2015 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Slow1
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Fri May 01, 2015 2:19 pm

Or possibly he/Tesla is leaving some additional 'value add' for SolarCity. Wait and see what they come out with in terms of new offerings in the near future... Tesla provides the battery, SolarCity provides the panels and appropriate inverter to make it all work together perhaps?

It would be a benefit for a solar company to offer a "turn key" system that works on or off grid don't you think? Might just be a competitive advantage... and as a whole system perhaps could all qualify for the 30% federal rebate? Just the battery alone likely doesn't.

Many angles to think of here....

As to capacity - We burn about 15kWh/day (without the car) here. So this unit could provide a very high percentage of that for our home. But other than going "off grid" it isn't a product for our market. We don't have TOU rates and have full net-metering for our solar. Thus it would, at best, be a very expensive emergency power supply (if it can do that) unless additional hardware allows it to interface with our grid-tied solar.

I wonder what the utility companies think of the idea of folks time-shifting loads via the charge/discharge cycle... Seems that it would be good for their grid stability as a whole and thus a good thing, but I wonder if the delta in rates between peak and off-peak will reduce over time (and thus reduce incentive to invest in the battery).
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2k1Toaster
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Fri May 01, 2015 2:28 pm

If you actually require an off-grid system, you should move. Our grid goes down for minutes a year if it ever does. All those batteries sitting there is a complete waste for the majority of the people. If you are doing peak-hour timing, that is different and can be accomplished with a HV battery into a normal grid-tie inverter.
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JimSouCal
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Fri May 01, 2015 2:31 pm

2k1Toaster wrote:
JimSouCal wrote:In theory, I am very fond of this idea. I'd be inclined to install the unit away from the house in a utility room made out of cinder block, in the same manner I might store propane tanks or gasoline, vented, but not in my attached garage... Paranoid or circumspect...?
Only if you charge all your cell phones and laptops in that outdoor shed too.

Make sure it is insulated so the battery doesn't get too cold...
Did you see happen to see the video of the Tesla car fire where the packs lost integrity and burned..? The batteries exploded and burned till the energy was spent in an impressive display like a firework shipment catching fire. Garages are the most common starting point of residential fires... Probably due to gasoline autos...

My point is I don't think there is a household fire suppression technology that would put a dent on the batteries if they became involved in a house fire...

Cell phone and laptop have a much smaller capacity and energy potential. Just sayin...

Zythryn
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Fri May 01, 2015 3:14 pm

JimSouCal wrote:Did you see happen to see the video of the Tesla car fire where the packs lost integrity and burned..? The batteries exploded and burned till the energy was spent in an impressive display like a firework shipment catching fire. Garages are the most common starting point of residential fires... Probably due to gasoline autos...

My point is I don't think there is a household fire suppression technology that would put a dent on the batteries if they became involved in a house fire...

Cell phone and laptop have a much smaller capacity and energy potential. Just sayin...
Luckily I rarely drive my garage over three ball hitches at highway speeds ;-)
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Fri May 01, 2015 3:24 pm

Even having it on an outside wall, if that bad boy melts down it's probably taking the house with it. Maybe here on CBS houses you stand a chance but even then if it's under an eve I can see it spreading into the roof.
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palmermd
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Re: Tesla Powerwall

Fri May 01, 2015 3:26 pm

Zythryn wrote:
JimSouCal wrote:Did you see happen to see the video of the Tesla car fire where the packs lost integrity and burned..? The batteries exploded and burned till the energy was spent in an impressive display like a firework shipment catching fire. Garages are the most common starting point of residential fires... Probably due to gasoline autos...

My point is I don't think there is a household fire suppression technology that would put a dent on the batteries if they became involved in a house fire...

Cell phone and laptop have a much smaller capacity and energy potential. Just sayin...
Luckily I rarely drive my garage over three ball hitches at highway speeds ;-)

And the prescribed solution for a battery fire on a Tesla pack is to drown it in water....pretty sure that technology is available in most homes.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-fire" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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