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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:59 am
by 91040
We all pay for it in one way or another.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:02 am
by 91040
We all pay for it in one way or another.
Oilpan4
I'm like most of the people in that survey.
Believe in climate change and don't believe in paying for it for.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:11 am
by Oilpan4
Okay let's say, you convinced me.
Now convince the other 68% of voters to open their wallets and pay up too. Or even just get the undecided people to pay up.


"The AP found Americans don’t want to pay very much to fight climate change, if the monthly charge is $10 a month, just 28 percent would be supportive, while 68 opposed".

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna962001

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:29 am
by SageBrush
Oilpan4 wrote:Okay let's say, you convinced me.
Now convince the other 68% of voters to open their wallets and pay up too. Or even just get the undecided people to pay up.
You can only be responsible for yourself.

That is why you presumably vote. Your choice is stark: you can choose an AGW denying idiot who thinks coal is clean, or a politician who recognizes AGW as a national emergency
That is why you choose whether to burn coal and wood in your home.
That is why you choose whether to tell your utility if you want clean energy.

Your vote may fail, but without it you definitely fail.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:07 am
by Oilpan4
SageBrush wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote:Okay let's say, you convinced me.
Now convince the other 68% of voters to open their wallets and pay up too. Or even just get the undecided people to pay up.
You can only be responsible for yourself.

That is why you presumably vote. Your choice is stark: you can choose an AGW denying idiot who thinks coal is clean, or a politician who recognizes AGW as a national emergency
That is why you choose whether to burn coal and wood in your home.
That is why you choose whether to tell your utility if you want clean energy.

Your vote may fail, but without it you definitely fail.
So more name calling, personal attacks and insults is all you have?
Present me with an argument that might convince the undecided people to join the 28% and pay up $10 per month to help fight climate change.
(Insulting them probably won't work)
Just a pitch. I don't even want a source, just a logical, friendly idea of your own making that might convince some who already believes in climate change to pay up.
Oilpan4 wrote:I'm like most of the people in that survey.
Believe in climate change
You call me a climate change denyer even after I post that.
You can't get anything right today you are really on a roll.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:24 am
by Lothsahn
SageBrush wrote:Second, it is not a tax.
It is a willingness to sometimes pay more now to reduce the (delayed to one degree or another) harmful effects of pollution and carbon.
Let's not lie. Unless it's voluntary, it's a tax. It may be a tax levied to account for the harm on society. The tax is completely reasonable--if you damage my life and property (which air pollution does), ethically you should compensate me. But it is still a tax.

Secondly, proposing a compromise where there is a carbon tax for a revenue neutral income tax cut is not "their playbook". I would much prefer we simply levy a carbon tax, take all proceeds, and issue a quarterly tax-free check divided evenly amongst all American citizens. The money would never touch the general fund at all. Universal Basic Income and environmental protection all at once. But if we cannot get majority support for an initiative like that, I would propose an income tax cut to make it revenue neutral. I suspect that is something that could pass.

Stop trying to group everyone into "us" and "them". You have good facts and arguments, which you repeatedly undermine with your insults and identity politics.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:37 am
by LTLFTcomposite
I find the idea of a carbon tax totally disingenuous. It's like an indulgence in the Catholic Church. So what you're doing is destroying the planet but as long as you pay me some money it's okay. The inevitable result will be the wealthier people just pay the tax and enjoy their limousines, megayachts and private jets and the folks further down the economic spectrum get shafted. Then the gnashing of teeth will be over that inequity in life, and we'll have another leftist politician offering a solution for that. OMG school teachers can't afford to put gas in their tanks. Women and children hardest hit. Let me guess, carbon tax subsidies to offset the disproportionate burden.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:05 pm
by LeftieBiker
OMG school teachers can't afford to put gas in their tanks. Women and children hardest hit. Let me guess, carbon tax subsidies to offset the disproportionate burden.
Why not? Are you afraid that this would be "welfare"...?

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:55 pm
by Oilpan4
Lothsahn wrote:
SageBrush wrote:Second, it is not a tax.
It is a willingness to sometimes pay more now to reduce the (delayed to one degree or another) harmful effects of pollution and carbon.
Let's not lie. Unless it's voluntary, it's a tax. It may be a tax levied to account for the harm on society. The tax is completely reasonable--if you damage my life and property (which air pollution does), ethically you should compensate me. But it is still a tax.

Secondly, proposing a compromise where there is a carbon tax for a revenue neutral income tax cut is not "their playbook". I would much prefer we simply levy a carbon tax, take all proceeds, and issue a quarterly tax-free check divided evenly amongst all American citizens. The money would never touch the general fund at all. Universal Basic Income and environmental protection all at once. But if we cannot get majority support for an initiative like that, I would propose an income tax cut to make it revenue neutral. I suspect that is something that could pass.

Stop trying to group everyone into "us" and "them". You have good facts and arguments, which you repeatedly undermine with your insults and identity politics.
Doesn't matter what verbal gymnastics are employed. We know what it is.

No other explanation is offered, but it's not a tax. What a joke.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:11 pm
by SageBrush
Oilpan4 wrote:[friendly idea of your own making that might convince some who already believes in climate change to pay up.
Why does it have to be friendly. Does it also have to come with a pacifier ? Why is not enough for you to be responsible for your actions ?
Why do you think your beliefs matter ? What part of reading a thermometer requires belief ?
What part of reading a pH meter requires belief ?
What part of the greenhouse effect requires belief ?

It has taken 20 years for the general Republican electorate in the USA to reach a (barely) majority opinion that the earth is warming, but only a small minority accept that the warming is human caused. Even fewer accept that the warming is a near term emergency. What level of understanding have you reached ?