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Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:49 am
by Oilpan4
$10,000 is still way to much.
I would rather put my own in for about half that, pay cash up front.
No loans, intrest, no credits, no bs.
I'm budgeting for about $0.90 a watt. Trying to pull it off for 65 to 75 cents a watt.
I figure for less than a dollar per watt I don't need the government to subsidize my power generation.
Plus if it's the cheapest way to generate electricity, why does the government feel it necessary to pay for around one third of it with other people's money?

I often see used solar edge optimizers on ebay.
They can be unlocked for use on non solar edge inverters. But you only get to use the cool features, like individual panel power production trends when they are used on the solar edge inverters.
Unless they have something new that can only be used only on a solar edge inverter that I'm not aware of.
I'm mostly only looking at the used stuff.

I would rather not use optimizers, as they can add up to 10 cents per watt to panel cost and will add on up to another year to payback time.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:02 am
by Marktm
Thanks Reg - although somewhat facetious, it's a great discussion.

I'll find a way to install a solar system when:
- SolarEdge/Pika Energy or similar builds a hybrid/bidirectional converter that allows my EV battery to be used as energy storage if I so choose. Likely will be a DC coupled system (IMHO).
- A smart phone app is available to seamlessly arbitrage the (Houston,Texas area) energy costs for my home - based on the highs and lows of $/Kwh (ranges from a negative couple of cents to $9). This app must also allow me to manage my EV travel energy requirements AND be able to smart charge my EV (at the right times).
- The EV I choose will provide a warranty for bidirectional energy based on smart charge protocols.
- System must be grid tied (obviously), but manage an emergency panel off-grid.
- Meanwhile I'll keep tweaking my 7000 watt conventional grid tied systems that are installed at my "solar friendly" cabin location. I can solar charge my old Leaf (off grid), however, getting energy back is another issue - although there are plenty of kludges :mrgreen:

No excuses about trees, roof orientation, HOA rules, codes, etc, etc. The pay back in my case, being retired and flexible with EV travel is a combination of energy cost savings and basic EV economics - which even in the ERCOT environment look very good. I don't believe it is too far off that such a commercial, warranted system will come available.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:37 am
by SageBrush
Oilpan4 wrote: They can be unlocked for use on non solar edge inverters. But you only get to use the cool features, like individual panel power production trends when they are used on the solar edge inverters.
Unless they have something new that can only be used only on a solar edge inverter that I'm not aware of.
I'm mostly only looking at the used stuff.
I'm not positive, but I have read that the MPPT is centrally controlled. I think it makes sense since the system is trying to optimize the panels in concert.

This specific optimizer
https://www.solaredge.com/us/products/r ... izer-indop#/
is sold as a stand-alone solution that can be used with any inverter and still have good MPPT.
The implication is that you lose this optimization with the others if they are not used with a SolarEdge inverter.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:24 pm
by Lothsahn
Oilpan4 wrote: I would rather not use optimizers, as they can add up to 10 cents per watt to panel cost and will add on up to another year to payback time.
Then use micro inverters unless you have NO shade. String inverters can lose most of the production of an entire string if only one or two panels are shaded. You also have to deal with the possibility of fires from arcing and significantly higher voltages when the sun is up. An optimizer system has only a few (2-8V) when offline.

Safety codes in a lot of areas are requiring micros or optimizers for roof mount systems.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:31 pm
by Oilpan4
Used solar edge inverters are cheap enough and plentiful.
I can get one of those setups and determine once and for all if I should use optimizers or not with a little 3kw fix array system.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:18 pm
by Oilpan4
Lothsahn wrote:
Oilpan4 wrote: I would rather not use optimizers, as they can add up to 10 cents per watt to panel cost and will add on up to another year to payback time.
Then use micro inverters unless you have NO shade. String inverters can lose most of the production of an entire string if only one or two panels are shaded. You also have to deal with the possibility of fires from arcing and significantly higher voltages when the sun is up. An optimizer system has only a few (2-8V) when offline.

Safety codes in a lot of areas are requiring micros or optimizers for roof mount systems.
It's a coop their only inverter requirements is it be less than 12kw for 240v single phase and UL certified to not try and back feed power once the grid signal is lost.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:05 am
by SageBrush
Oilpan4 wrote: It's a coop their only inverter requirements is it be less than 12kw for 240v single phase and UL certified to not try and back feed power once the grid signal is lost.
The Co-op requirements are not the question, but the electric code you must follow. My experience in rural Colorado was that the local authorities deferred to the state inspection.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:46 am
by Oilpan4
There doesn't appear to be any state inspection according to the only electrician who has installed some grid tied solar around here and the coop. The coop has their inspection that they do, all they are looking for is the AC and DC disconnects and that the inverter have the UL cert for no power back back feeding when the grid signal is lost.
I'm assuming that they would like to see all the wire ran in metallic conduit, proper number of conduit clamps, AC and DC lines kept in seperate conduits which is industry standard along with normal grounding and bonding.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:31 am
by Oilpan4
I found some slightly used framed poly panels for $0.22 a watt.
I will probably get these. Since the P/$ efficiency is nearly double that of mono.

Re: Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:33 am
by Oilpan4
Only $300 to ship up to 25 panels.
So $1,950 for 7.5kw of panels.
26 cents a watt total.

Panels will weigh 1,500 lb not including the pallet. My trailer and leaf can easily pull that home from work.

Now should I buy a full pallet even though I only pLan to use about 3kw right away and won't be able to use the rest of the panels for a while, or just buy what I need plus a few spares.
Even if I only buy 10 panels shipping will still be a large portion of that $300.
Maybe I can put extras on Craigslist for a $130 each, plus a little more if I deliver them to sell a few to double some of my money. Roll the dice and sell 1 or 2 at the tractor auction.
No one sells cheap panels around here.