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Re: CHAdeMO connectors being squeezed out?

Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:46 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:39 pm
keep the Chademo's at 50-75 kWh,
Huh?

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Re: CHAdeMO connectors being squeezed out?

Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:50 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:39 pm
This is my crazy talk, but I think Nissan should talk to Tesla about joining the super charger network.

It would give the optics that Tesla is not just a walled garden, and honestly, Leaf owners are some of the best Tesla customers out there. sure, keep the Chademo's at 50-75 kWh, and let them come, charge, and pine for a M3 or a MY. Adding the additional station cord and payment would be trivial for Tesla to accomplish.
Great idea Doug. Now we just have to convince Nissan to spend the money. Eeeek.
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CanuckEVDriver
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Re: CHAdeMO connectors being squeezed out?

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:38 am

Thank you all for the comments. It seems that the trend of charging stations are going towards more power being pumped into the car's battery to speed up the charging time.

Originally, L3 chargers were pumping out 20-50 kW. And with this, most manufacturers were "designing" their own power connectors (which is why we now have 3 variations of connectors (CHAdeMO, CCS, Tesla). Standardization was a bit slow in the EV world.

Now L3 chargers are being built that can pump out up to 240 kW. Obviously, only newer car batteries can take advantage of the higher powered chargers. (ie: older LEAFs, before 2019 will max out at 50 kW, the newer LEAFS with the 62 kWh batteries will be able to take more current.

I haven't been able to find it yet (might find it today, nothing else to do :? ), it appears that the CHAdeMO connector is not designed for more than 100 kW? (If anyone can verify this, thank you)

Apparently the CCS and Tesla "supercharger" connectors can handle the higher current (once installed in existing stations).

Personally, I prefer the Tesla designed connector, it's smaller and my wife says easier to connect than the current CCS/J1772 or CHAdeMO/J1772 set ups. I only wish that car manufacturers standardize on the position of the charging port. The front seems to make more sense, as you can just drive up to the charger.
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webeleafowners
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Re: CHAdeMO connectors being squeezed out?

Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:42 am

CanuckEVDriver wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:38 am
Thank you all for the comments. It seems that the trend of charging stations are going towards more power being pumped into the car's battery to speed up the charging time.

Originally, L3 chargers were pumping out 20-50 kW. And with this, most manufacturers were "designing" their own power connectors (which is why we now have 3 variations of connectors (CHAdeMO, CCS, Tesla). Standardization was a bit slow in the EV world.

Now L3 chargers are being built that can pump out up to 240 kW. Obviously, only newer car batteries can take advantage of the higher powered chargers. (ie: older LEAFs, before 2019 will max out at 50 kW, the newer LEAFS with the 62 kWh batteries will be able to take more current.

I haven't been able to find it yet (might find it today, nothing else to do :? ), it appears that the CHAdeMO connector is not designed for more than 100 kW? (If anyone can verify this, thank you)

Apparently the CCS and Tesla "supercharger" connectors can handle the higher current (once installed in existing stations).

Personally, I prefer the Tesla designed connector, it's smaller and my wife says easier to connect than the current CCS/J1772 or CHAdeMO/J1772 set ups. I only wish that car manufacturers standardize on the position of the charging port. The front seems to make more sense, as you can just drive up to the charger.
I believe Chademo can charge up to 400 Kw. Not an expert.
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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: CHAdeMO connectors being squeezed out?

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:07 am

Chademo 2 spec was to 400kW, and Chademo 3 (ChaoJi) I think is 900
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Re: CHAdeMO connectors being squeezed out?

Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:12 am

CanuckEVDriver wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:38 am
And with this, most manufacturers were "designing" their own power connectors (which is why we now have 3 variations of connectors (CHAdeMO, CCS, Tesla). Standardization was a bit slow in the EV world.
No, that is just Tesla. Tesla has complete control of the connector and everything related to it. Network effect giving Tesla more market power.


Chademo: Power company and several car makers in Japan set up a standard in 2005. Any company can be a member.

https://www.chademo.com/membership/members/

Standard published. Any car that meets the standard should be able to charge at any charger that meets the standard.

Likewise CCS.
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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: CHAdeMO connectors being squeezed out?

Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:58 am

Here is the post from the Chademo site:

CHAdeMO Association’s latest protocol, CHAdeMO 3.0 (to be published in a few months’ time), will achieve hardware harmonisation with China’s GB/T (Project ChaoJi). This means there will be a new plug (much smaller and lighter than the current CHAdeMO or GB/T), which will be backward compatible with both current GB/T and CHAdeMO vehicles and chargers. We are happy to be part of the driving force towards the harmonisation of standards, while protecting the interest of the current EV users and infrastructure stakeholders.

Chademo and GB/T are already merging, and will likely continue to dominate Asia.

Even thought Chademo has been declared dead for Europe, thousands more still going into market there.

https://www.chademo.com/enel-x-pushes-f ... -projects/
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Re: CHAdeMO connectors being squeezed out?

Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:18 am

WetEV wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:12 am
No, that is just Tesla. Tesla has complete control of the connector and everything related to it. Network effect giving Tesla more market power.
Tesla in Europe originally used the standard Mennekes type 2 connector (but DC in addition to AC), and they've now moved to CCS Combo. It would be nice if they did that here, but it's obviously not going to happen at this point.
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:39 pm
This is my crazy talk, but I think Nissan should talk to Tesla about joining the super charger network.
... keep the Chademo's at 50-75 kWh, and let them come, charge, and pine for a M3 or a MY. Adding the additional station cord and payment would be trivial for Tesla to accomplish.
Tesla adding CHAdeMO connectors at SuperChargers? :lol:

Hint: There are enough Tesla cars using the SuCs now; they need to build more just to support them. The last thing they want is a LEAF sitting there taking up a SuC stall charging at 45kWh for an hour. There is no value in that.
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Re: CHAdeMO connectors being squeezed out?

Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:29 am

jlv wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:18 am
WetEV wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:12 am
No, that is just Tesla. Tesla has complete control of the connector and everything related to it. Network effect giving Tesla more market power.
Tesla adding CHAdeMO connectors at SuperChargers? :lol:
Exactly. How can Musk hope to become the first Trillionare if he can't make Tesla a monopoly? Musk needs the network effect.
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mtndrew1
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Re: CHAdeMO connectors being squeezed out?

Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:47 am

There are two cars for sale in the US with CHAdeMO. One of them is a plug in hybrid SUV that nobody buys (Outlander) and the other is the Leaf which is a slow seller.

CCS cars on sale in 2020:

Audi etron
BMW i3
Chevy Bolt
Ford Mustang Mach E
Honda Clarity
Hyundai Ioniq
Hyundai Kona
Jaguar I-Pace
Mercedes EQC
Mini Cooper EV
Kia Niro
Polestar 2
Porsche Taycan
VW eGolf
Volvo XC40 Recharge

More CCS are coming for 2021 and 2022.

CHAdeMO is super dead in the US.
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2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC sold with warranty pack replacement (~35% degradation @ ~40k miles)

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