Shaka
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:57 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Dec 2012
Leaf Number: 026665
Location: Cleveland, Ohio - USA

Re: OHIO - Cleveland - Northeastern Ohio / Midwest

Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:13 am

772 wrote:It seems like Nissan has been installing a lot of DC charging stations around the country... hopefully they will install some in OH/PA/MI in the near future.
They need to, especially if they want to keep up with Tesla. If you follow them, Tesla recently installed a Supercharger station in Macedonia right near I-271 off Rt 82. And they also installed a station in central-PA. Making the drive from Ohio to Wash/DC is viable now in a Tesla -- but they had the range anyhow. Hopefully Nissan steps up soon! Though from what I have heard the fast charge adapter on the Leaf is not standardized enough for other auto makers, which explains the slow roll-out here.

772
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:39 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2014
Leaf Number: 420702
Location: Ohio

Re: OHIO - Cleveland - Northeastern Ohio / Midwest

Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:29 pm

Sort of... although Teslas are supposed to be getting CHAdeMO adapters soon, too. Even though they already have their own network. What other EVs that are on the market right now can use DC fast charging?

Shaka
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:57 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Dec 2012
Leaf Number: 026665
Location: Cleveland, Ohio - USA

Re: OHIO - Cleveland - Northeastern Ohio / Midwest

Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:40 pm

772 wrote:Sort of... although Teslas are supposed to be getting CHAdeMO adapters soon, too. Even though they already have their own network. What other EVs that are on the market right now can use DC fast charging?
According to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO#Vehicle_charging" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
.. pretty much only the Leaf.

Not sure if the MiEV is sold here? And if so, if it has fast charge option.

However, when you compare the number of Tesla on the roads versus the number of Leaf vehicles on the road, you'd expect a lot more CHAdeMO chargers than exist... sad....

dca
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:03 am
Delivery Date: 19 Nov 2013

Re: OHIO - Cleveland - Northeastern Ohio / Midwest

Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:15 pm

Interesting... the Wikipedia page Ari referenced says it was developed with the Tokyo Elec. Power Co. and Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, and later joining the group...Toyota.

So far only Toyota/Scion seems to be the only one not making the QC port available on their vehicles.

Not sure how many are being sold in the States, but this seems to make Tesla and any other US makers (Ford, Chevy) using the SAE format the minority based on # of vehicles sold. Some stations will have both connectors available. Sounds like the next VHS / Beta war. ;-).

On something like this the US mfgrs really should have tried to standardize to the existing Japanese std...I imagine there is some underlying political issue with the connector H/W availability and cost. I wonder how different they really are when the car really just needs the power terminals ... the rest is just a matter of safety and convenience features.

Dave

772
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:39 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2014
Leaf Number: 420702
Location: Ohio

Re: OHIO - Cleveland - Northeastern Ohio / Midwest

Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:27 pm

Shaka wrote:
772 wrote:Sort of... although Teslas are supposed to be getting CHAdeMO adapters soon, too. Even though they already have their own network. What other EVs that are on the market right now can use DC fast charging?
According to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO#Vehicle_charging" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
.. pretty much only the Leaf.

Not sure if the MiEV is sold here? And if so, if it has fast charge option.

However, when you compare the number of Tesla on the roads versus the number of Leaf vehicles on the road, you'd expect a lot more CHAdeMO chargers than exist... sad....
There are a lot more CHAdeMO than Tesla superchargers, but Tesla has done a better job of spacing them out. Very few people will realistically drive a Tesla cross country, and even less so a Leaf, but having an interconnected network is a big selling point. In NEO, if quick chargers were placed on routes to Pittsburgh, Columbus and Detroit, Nissan would sell a lot more Leafs. But dealers don't seem to be interested in paying for installs. When I went along for delivery, the dealer said they only sold 2 Leafs this year. It's really a chicken and egg problem IMO.

As for SAE vs. CHAdeMO, the way things are going I actually think the Tesla adapter will become the most popular one. They are so much more aggressive about installing their proprietary superchargers as well as destination chargers (HPWCs). By the time SAE starts getting its feet wet in installing charging station, Tesla and CHAdeMO will be way ahead. Why develop a new network from scratch when a compatible one already exists?

Shaka
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:57 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Dec 2012
Leaf Number: 026665
Location: Cleveland, Ohio - USA

Re: OHIO - Cleveland - Northeastern Ohio / Midwest

Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:41 am

772 wrote:There are a lot more CHAdeMO than Tesla superchargers, but Tesla has done a better job of spacing them out. Very few people will realistically drive a Tesla cross country, and even less so a Leaf, but having an interconnected network is a big selling point. In NEO, if quick chargers were placed on routes to Pittsburgh, Columbus and Detroit, Nissan would sell a lot more Leafs. But dealers don't seem to be interested in paying for installs. When I went along for delivery, the dealer said they only sold 2 Leafs this year. It's really a chicken and egg problem IMO.

As for SAE vs. CHAdeMO, the way things are going I actually think the Tesla adapter will become the most popular one. They are so much more aggressive about installing their proprietary superchargers as well as destination chargers (HPWCs). By the time SAE starts getting its feet wet in installing charging station, Tesla and CHAdeMO will be way ahead. Why develop a new network from scratch when a compatible one already exists?
Just over a year ago I did research into the CHAdeMO chargers, finding most of them placed around larger cities. So I agree with you there-- it seems like there are plenty of them but only in dense populated areas. Seems a bit silly, but maybe not that much when you consider the largest per capita of them is in the general LA area-- where the EVs typically first go on sale. And having recently visited a friend with a Leaf who lives north of LA, and works in LA ... his car could benefit from quick charging if he wanted to go south of the city, say to Long Beach for example. Even regular 240v charging stations are far more common there than versus say where I live here in Cleveland. Oh-- I agree too that if Nissan (or anyone for that matter) installed CHAdeMO chargers and then advertised them in such a way that it connected Cleveland to Chicago, or Cinci, or Pitt.... yeah that would hugely benefit sales the way Tesla is using that even though many people wont use it. Sort of like Verizon covering the entire USA-- how often do people travel and need that kind of coverage? Sure business folks do, but still they market it to "everyone" because it helps sell phones.

To your second paragraph/point... I'm not sure I agree about the Tesla adapter becoming standard for two reasons. First of all, are they willing to sell off the rights for non-Tesla products? I doubt it... especially because they, like Apple, realize that their car carries prestige. They don't want their customers to brush elbows with common folk. That is why they use a proprietary connector in the first place, because like Apple, theirs is better. (I am a Mac, iPhone, Apple user FYI-- so this is NOT a slam). Second reason I don't think it will happen is because too many car manufacturers already started using the 240v SAE.... so for it to happen the SAE would have to accept the Tesla unit as the new standard. And that seems highly unlikely. For the moment if anything I think that the next SAE standard for EVs will allow either the current plug to be 480v fast/quick... or one that is larger but internall includes the old standard, making migration easier to quick charging. My personal bet is that the Tesla standard will remain just for Tesla, the same way of mini USB versus the Apple lightning connector... but hey, only time will tell.

All I care about right now (for the two remaining years of our lease) would be to see some more chargers in our area, 240v or otherwise.... :)

Berlino
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Leaf Number: 412600
Location: Quebec City, Canada

Re: OHIO - Cleveland - Northeastern Ohio / Midwest

Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:43 am

I believe Ohio is the largest state, population wise, to not have a single CHAdeMO charging station. Nissan doesn't have the same incentive to install them there, since they don't earn CARB-ZEV credits for LEAF sales in Ohio as they do in other markets.
Ordered: 7/18/13 Delivered: 8/05/13
Red 2013 SL w/premium
EVSE Upgrade, LEAF Spy Pro
Michelin X-Ice Xi3 FIVE months per year.
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Selected from inventory w ~500 miles: 3/28/14
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772
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:39 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2014
Leaf Number: 420702
Location: Ohio

Re: OHIO - Cleveland - Northeastern Ohio / Midwest

Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:30 am

If Tesla stay true to their mission of mass EV adoption, I don't think they will have an issue with licensing out their charging network if it would mean more EV sales. But you are right, we will see what happens.

As for more chargers in this area, we ought to be installing a J1772 in our garage next week. I'll try to convince him to put it on plugshare... I think it would be one of the few (only) on the west side of town, aside from the Nissan dealers. Does anyone know of any other charging stations coming or rumored to be coming to NEO?

Shaka
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:57 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Dec 2012
Leaf Number: 026665
Location: Cleveland, Ohio - USA

Re: OHIO - Cleveland - Northeastern Ohio / Midwest

Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:44 am

772 wrote:If Tesla stay true to their mission of mass EV adoption, I don't think they will have an issue with licensing out their charging network if it would mean more EV sales. But you are right, we will see what happens.

As for more chargers in this area, we ought to be installing a J1772 in our garage next week. I'll try to convince him to put it on plugshare... I think it would be one of the few (only) on the west side of town, aside from the Nissan dealers. Does anyone know of any other charging stations coming or rumored to be coming to NEO?
Our home is on PlugShare (listed under username "Shaka" over in Beachwood). I almost had a Tesla owner stop by once to use it, actually -- but he ended up using the Constantino's market location in Uptown.

As for more chargers, rumor had the zoo and two other locations-- check this article out:
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... l_3_p.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However, after that never came to fruition I talked to someone at NPR, who write this article (there is a fun audio clip that goes with it too)-- he came out to my house, and even included our (then 5 years old) daughter in the interview.
http://www.wksu.org/news/story/34306" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For now nothing has happened. I've reached out a few times to the Zoo but received just basic replies with vague details and no set date or goal in mind. The zoo for us would be great as we go there often and spend a few hours at a time. Hope the city adds some options soon!

772
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:39 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2014
Leaf Number: 420702
Location: Ohio

Re: OHIO - Cleveland - Northeastern Ohio / Midwest

Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:56 am

The zoo is an ideal spot for destination charging. Is there a contact person you had over there? Would be happy to call or e-mail them.

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