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planet4ever
Posts: 4674
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 02 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:40 pm

Shaka wrote:to the OP's question, my drive round-trip to work yesterday was about 25 miles and I had ~half my bars left... so I would still say 50 miles give or take with constant heat on (68deg in my case) seems about right. Can't wait till spring time and better range!
I have good news and bad news for you. Referring again to Tony's chart, if you have 6 bars showing then your battery is more than half full. It's about half full when you drop to 5 bars. That's the good news. The bad news is that many people have an empty tank phobia, and never want to take the battery below the "Low Battery Warning". Some are even convinced that the last two charge bars are "red", and that it is evil to drop to two bars or less. If you are in either of those camps, then at 6 bars you have less than half of the energy that you are willing to use left in the battery.

Personally I have only a mild form of that phobia. I don't mind going below "LBW", and in fact have done it an average of about once a week in the 20 months I've had the car. I don't, however, like going below "VLBW" (Very Low Battery), at which point the GuessOMeter number disappears and is replaced by three dashes. So Tony's chart tells me that "half full" relative to my comfort range is when the sixth bar is "half used up". (I hasten to add that I have gone below VLBW a number of times, and don't panic when that happens, but I do believe it can shorten the battery's life.)

By the way, 6 bars is easy to spot at a glance. It is when the top of the "electron pump" picture is even with the top of the first bar that is lit up.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

ashp
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:31 am
Delivery Date: 31 Dec 2012

Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:41 am

I am quoting this from disclosure documents from Nissan that I had signed

Winter, urban stop-and-go, trafiic jam: 62 miles
------------------------------------------------------

Speed Avergae 15 mph
Temprature 14 degrees
Climate control On


If I go by less than 40 miles I am getting than this car is of limited use.
preheating is no a solution every time nor preheating solves the entire problem in such winter.
I can only preheat once at home that too if I know in advance when I am going out exactly.
I can not preheat the car while coming back as there is virtually little charging infrastructure avaliable
Wearing heated jacket and other winter clothes is also a workaround not a solution by desgin


Bottom line for cold weather

1) Nissan leaf will go much less limited distance than what is claimed in real world if heating is used while driving the car
2) Do not use heater



We still love our leaf.....

AndyLL
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:24 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 027090
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Contact: Website

Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:59 am

ashp wrote:How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather with heater on in colorado?
I am getting less than 40 miles on with full charged battery with heater on, heated seats on,steering wheel heating on my new 2012 Nissan leaf , I have driven 400 miles by now. Most of the driving is in Evening awhen tempratue is around 12 to 30 F.
I very qucikly loose the bars.
I drive from Castle Rock to DTC daily... about 40 miles all freeway. It uses ~ 2 bars going to work and ~3 bars coming back ( uphill ). I usually only charge to 80%. It is parked in a garage and I preheat on really cold days.

I don't use the heat much but it seems when I do that it uses another 2-3. The lowest I've gotten to was 2 bars.

I would not have any fear of uses the heat (in ECO mode) with my commute. (with the 80% charge)
WALL-E - 2012 Black Leaf SL
EVA - 2012 Cayenne Red SL
2010 Honda Accord EX-L
2002 Ford F150

User avatar
ebill3
Posts: 1400
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7964
Location: Puyallup WA

Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:11 pm

AndyLL wrote:I drive from Castle Rock to DTC daily... about 40 miles all freeway. It uses ~ 2 bars going to work and ~3 bars coming back ( uphill ). I usually only charge to 80%. It is parked in a garage and I preheat on really cold days.
Surely, 40 miles must be the round trip distance, right?

Eight miles per bar at freeway speed in a Colorado winter sounds phenomenal to me. What is your average miles per kWh for the trip?

Bill
All electric - red LEAF, green Tesla S. No ICE.

AndyLL
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:24 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 027090
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Contact: Website

Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:58 pm

ebill3 wrote:
AndyLL wrote:I drive from Castle Rock to DTC daily... about 40 miles all freeway. It uses ~ 2 bars going to work and ~3 bars coming back ( uphill ). I usually only charge to 80%. It is parked in a garage and I preheat on really cold days.
Surely, 40 miles must be the round trip distance, right?

Eight miles per bar at freeway speed in a Colorado winter sounds phenomenal to me. What is your average miles per kWh for the trip?

Bill
That is round trip.

With no heat I get around 4.7 going into to work. Going home it's harder to tell since my driving style and use of heat depends on how low I am. Without heat it's around 3.7

It's probably closer to 3 coming in and 4 going home... the bar always drops after turning off the car.

Today I had a 80% charge. I drove 20 miles in and around 5 at lunch... all with the heat at 70.

I'm at 5 bars so I used 5 so far. If I use heat it'll get as low as its ever gotten.
WALL-E - 2012 Black Leaf SL
EVA - 2012 Cayenne Red SL
2010 Honda Accord EX-L
2002 Ford F150

EvansvilleLeaf
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:00 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Feb 2012
Leaf Number: 334545
Location: Youngsville NC

Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:39 pm

ashp wrote:I am quoting this from disclosure documents from Nissan that I had signed

Winter, urban stop-and-go, trafiic jam: 62 miles
------------------------------------------------------

Speed Avergae 15 mph
Temprature 14 degrees
Climate control On


If I go by less than 40 miles I am getting than this car is of limited use.
preheating is no a solution every time nor preheating solves the entire problem in such winter.
I can only preheat once at home that too if I know in advance when I am going out exactly.
I can not preheat the car while coming back as there is virtually little charging infrastructure avaliable
Wearing heated jacket and other winter clothes is also a workaround not a solution by desgin


Bottom line for cold weather

1) Nissan leaf will go much less limited distance than what is claimed in real world if heating is used while driving the car
2) Do not use heater



We still love our leaf.....

And are you going 15mph to get that 40? The parameters of their claim include that speed. Winter or not I get 5/KwH or thereabouts at really slow speeds - although I am admittedly sparing with cabin heat.


kubel
Posts: 1609
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:38 am
Leaf Number: 19628
Location: Southeast Michigan

Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:12 pm

I'm doing 55 miles per day with an 80% initial charge and a 5-hour trickle charge while at work. If I had to guess that would probably be equal to about 45 or 50 miles per 100% charge. I'm usually around 2.5 to 2.9 miles per kWh.

Conditions: High rolling resistance winter tires and heavy steel wheels. 15-30F. Heater (auto, 75F, feels like 55F), heated steering wheel, and heated seat on hi running non-stop. Eco mode. 45-60MPH. Spirited driving. Lights on during return trip. Playing MP3's from USB usually. Small draw from cigarette lighter powering dashcam while car is running. Pre-heat in the morning, but not before the return trip unless I'm plugged in all day.

The decrease in range due to the drop in temperatures is pretty linear down until the lower teens. At that point and down into the single digits, I noticed a SIGNIFICANT decrease in range compared to upper 20's. I'm not sure if that's because the heater has to work overtime to keep the cabin warm, or if there's something going on in the battery, or both.
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
20% degradation in 42k miles
Leased 5-17-2012, Returned 1-15-2016


2017 Chevy Volt LT
Siren Red Tintcoat
Leased 10-21-2016

GRA
Posts: 11213
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:47 pm

planet4ever wrote:
Shaka wrote:to the OP's question, my drive round-trip to work yesterday was about 25 miles and I had ~half my bars left... so I would still say 50 miles give or take with constant heat on (68deg in my case) seems about right. Can't wait till spring time and better range!
I have good news and bad news for you. Referring again to Tony's chart, if you have 6 bars showing then your battery is more than half full. It's about half full when you drop to 5 bars. That's the good news. The bad news is that many people have an empty tank phobia, and never want to take the battery below the "Low Battery Warning". Some are even convinced that the last two charge bars are "red", and that it is evil to drop to two bars or less. If you are in either of those camps, then at 6 bars you have less than half of the energy that you are willing to use left in the battery.

Personally I have only a mild form of that phobia. I don't mind going below "LBW", and in fact have done it an average of about once a week in the 20 months I've had the car. I don't, however, like going below "VLBW" (Very Low Battery), at which point the GuessOMeter number disappears and is replaced by three dashes. So Tony's chart tells me that "half full" relative to my comfort range is when the sixth bar is "half used up". (I hasten to add that I have gone below VLBW a number of times, and don't panic when that happens, but I do believe it can shorten the battery's life.)

By the way, 6 bars is easy to spot at a glance. It is when the top of the "electron pump" picture is even with the top of the first bar that is lit up.

Ray
Ray, I don't think not wishing to go below LBW @ approx. 20% remaining is a 'phobia', although many people, myself inclluded, would consider that a minimum reserve for unexpected situations. However, one thing that all batteries share is that they degrade more rapidly the deeper they're discharged. Unfortunately, we lack both price and cycle degradation info from Nissan to determine where the sweet spot is with the Leaf's battery. In the typical deep cycle off-grid AE systems I used to design, with flooded lead acid batteries the best economy was usually achieved by designing a system for regular cycling to no more than 50% DoD. Gel-cells generally were more cost effective at shallower DoDs, given the higher cost of the cells and their different cycle lifes. Ni-Cads or NiFes were different yet again.

Batteries are generally rated for cycle life at 80% DoD, but that doesn't mean that's the best way to treat them. The shallower you cycle them (the old sintered plate Ni-Cads with memory effect aside), the longer they'll last. Li-ions are apparently different than other chemistries I've worked with in that they don't like to be charged to 100% and left there, but I've seen no indications that the 'shallower DoD = slower degradation' rule doesn't apply to them; every degradation chart I've seen says that it does, and the degradation curves aren't linear, they're exponential. So, doubling the DoD from 40 to 80% doesn't result in half the cycle life, it's a lot less, and the deeper the DoD the steeper the curve.
Last edited by GRA on Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

AndyLL
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:24 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 027090
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Contact: Website

Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:39 pm

I drove 45 miles today. 40 on freeway with an elevation change of 1000ft each way. 5 was just running around at lunch.

I was charged to 80%. I ran the heater at 70 degrees the whole time including 1/2 hour while I sat in the car and ate lunch.

Battery Temp was 3 bars in the morning and 4 when I drove home.

I still had 2 bars left when I got home.

I did charge about 2 hours on a L1 at work... it added a bar.

So I used 9 bars.

Quite honestly I don't feel the need to use the heater in the morning. I pre-heat and use the heated steering wheel and seat. When its in the low teens I tend to turn it on to 65 degrees once it gets cool in the car.

Going home I'll use it more if I have the charge but I keep it between 60-65.
WALL-E - 2012 Black Leaf SL
EVA - 2012 Cayenne Red SL
2010 Honda Accord EX-L
2002 Ford F150

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