Pipcecil
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Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:54 am

Can you shift this cold stuff you are talking about down here? We hit 90 over the weekend in Dallas. I want cold weather! Its almost November!
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NasGoreList
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Location: Falls Chruch, VA

Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:14 am

Nfuzzy wrote:Got my first taste of what cold does to my range today. 53 mile roundtrip commute took 65% of my battery according to the dash today when it normally takes more like 55%. It was 35, windy, and light snow on the way home. Not bad but I still am a little worried about what even colder temps and snow on the ground would do. Battery started the day warm, 6 bars, ended the day with 4.
what was you heater temp setting? did you use heated seats?

Nfuzzy
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Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:17 am

I used no heat or accessories other the radio. The car had captured enough sun during the day I guess, really didn't need it.
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NasGoreList
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Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:53 am

wow 10% drop in the efficiency just due to the cold weather..seems excessive, were you driving at your normal speed?

what were the outside temperatures that day?

range drops relative to the outside temperature:
http://canadianleaf.wordpress.com/2013/ ... o-winters/

his conclusions regarding how leaf performs in the winter:
Range definitely drops but how much it drops mainly depends on how much you use the cabin heater, not necessarily on the outside temperature.
If you heat up the cabin like a furnace and drive like there is no tomorrow, your typical 140 km range can easily drop all the way down to 60 km or even less. But if you manage to keep your cabin cool, drive conservatively, and use some of the techniques described below, you can still drive 100 km under fairly low temperatures.
With a short commute like mine (17 to 29 km each way), winter range is rarely a concern. However, if I need to run some errands in the evening, I do need to top off the charge during supper. To me, that’s main difference between summer and winter. In the summer, I rarely need to charge during the day.
During the weekends, most of our driving is spread out during the course of the day, with many opportunities to recharge at home. For longer than usual winter drives, we take our range extender (my wife’s car).
Heavy snow fall increases rolling resistance, and heavy freezing rain requires you to run the windshield defrost most of the time. I find these two conditions actually worse than a bone chilling but sunny day.
There are several techniques you can use to minimize the use of the cabin heater. It is essential to pre-heat the car before you leave, using grid power, and take advantage of the heated seats and heated steering wheels, and keep your winter jacket on.
The 2013 model has a more efficient cabin heater that is expected to perform better than the one that I have, but its performance is yet to be tested under very low temperatures.
Range concerns aside, the Leaf is the most comfortable car I’ve ever had in the winter. The extra weight from the batteries and the traction control system make it very safe to drive under heavy snow and slush conditions. It doesn’t have any problem “starting” in the cold, or that heavy and sluggish feeling of a gas car in the winter.


Image
Last edited by NasGoreList on Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

Slow1
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Leaf Number: 425010
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Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:34 am

My wife had a bad experience end of last week somewhat related to cold.. She still isn't sure what exactly she did. My guess is that she kicked the defrost on set to a warm temp and left it all the way out. Her trip should have been about 82 miles R/T which is fairly comfortably within our normal 'summer' range (expect return about 5% remaining). She was on the return trip (estimate about 50 miles into trip) and noticed that the car was reporting less than 20% remaining which would not be enough to make it all the way home.

Anyway, she experienced range anxiety for the first time. Found her a charger at a whole foods market and she got about an hour of L2 there before finishing trip home. Now she is more concerned about such trips so we need to benchmark our range - may have to use the gas van on more of these trips during the cold weather. No charging available at her destination so pretty much have to make the R/T (planned stop en-route are out due to time constraints - Friday I had to leave work to pick kids up as a result of this...)

Anyway - once I figure out our range will post, I do wonder where it will land.
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nerys
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Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:10 am

2012 with 90% battery (degredation) i get 80 to 85 miles to a charge

How low a temp can i drive and still get 55 miles range? (No heat i have a little gas heater for that)

Maybe seat warmers on (i find they dont seem to take much power)

Work is 55 miles away once a week (yes will 100% charge at work)

Thoughts? This is se pa and s jersey.
2012 SV 4802miles. 1month 2400 miles. 9 weeks 5000 miles. 6 months 13,300 miles. 4/18 15,000 miles.

Slow1
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Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:46 am

This thread got me thinking of factors that could affect range in cold weather. Clearly the battery temperature change would be a factor, but in my case this may well be mitigated by parking in our garage and/or charging to heat the batteries prior to leaving.

Wind resistance came to mind. A google search popped a page up that, while I haven't studied his equations close, seems somewhat well reasoned: http://www.xenodochy.org/ex/index.html?abstract/mileage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The conclusion he draws seems to indicate that for each 10*f drop in temperature, wind resistance decreases fuel economy by about 2% (and I'd figure that should translate into range for us). Obviously actual drag coefficient would have to be considered, but if this is accurate, then range of 90 miles at 80* temps could fall to 81 miles at 30*f (50* difference -> 5*2%=10% reduction, 90-10%=81 miles). That is rather significant and clearly could be even more dramatic at higher speeds.

Anyone vouch for the methodology and/or conclusions here?
2013 S with 6kw upgrade (Black)
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dgpcolorado
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Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:28 pm

Slow1 wrote:...The conclusion he draws seems to indicate that for each 10*f drop in temperature, wind resistance decreases fuel economy by about 2% (and I'd figure that should translate into range for us). Obviously actual drag coefficient would have to be considered, but if this is accurate, then range of 90 miles at 80* temps could fall to 81 miles at 30*f (50* difference -> 5*2%=10% reduction, 90-10%=81 miles). That is rather significant and clearly could be even more dramatic at higher speeds.

Anyone vouch for the methodology and/or conclusions here?
Those numbers seem reasonable to me. In addition to increased drag, cold temperatures also cause increased rolling resistance, due to cold tires and gear lube. Another factor is that a cold battery has reduced capacity, although that depends a lot on whether the car is kept in a garage that is above ambient temperature and how it being charged, since charging warms the battery significantly (unless the battery is extremely cold, in which case the charging speed slows drastically).

Another consideration in Nfuzzy's report above, which has nothing to do with temperature, is wind. That can reduce range by a lot. As can heavy rain and snow, of course.

No, the heater isn't the only culprit in reduced winter range.
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Nfuzzy
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:37 pm
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Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:51 pm

Thanks for the feedback. As I said it was also windy last night, so that probably paid a large role as well. Most of the time my commute is half that distance so I don't have as many data points on that longer distance yet.
2015 Leaf S with QC, purchased July '14
35000mi as of August-17, 92% SOH
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Nfuzzy
Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:37 pm
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Re: How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:42 pm

Well 13 most of the day with a high of maybe 20. Got to try out the heated steering wheel and seat, and used a bit of heat but not the whole commute. Gets warm fast! Used 40% of the battery compared to the normal 30% but then I was driving no more than 45 when 55-65 is the norm. Battery started the day at 4 temp bars and ended at 3. All in all not bad, bring on the colder temps tomorrow!
2015 Leaf S with QC, purchased July '14
35000mi as of August-17, 92% SOH
7kw Solar

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