Cor
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Wed May 25, 2016 10:38 pm

Valdemar wrote:I kept it as the damage wasn't too bad, and ignoring the looks the car is driveable, I have no intention to sell, will fix it up sooner or later if at all. I was lucky I suppose, but considering a hypothetical worst case scenario when the car is trashed most of your battery investment money would go to waste.
Good for you! It is always possible to fix up the car if you don't like how it looks,
while still enjoying it, especially with a new battery!
I'll probably focus on getting a battery for my S10 truck instead of upgrading other's 2011/2012 Leaf's then, with the feedback
I have gotten so far. Thanks for the guidance!

DMHLeafer
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:42 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jul 2011

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:21 am

I have the same experience with my recently "totaled" (front body damage) 2011 SL. Insurance offered me very little for my loss. However, I have the salvage 2011 Leaf with a relatively new battery (installed oct 2015 with about 8k miles). I would be willing to sell it to someone for less than the cost of a new battery. It's currently located in a salvage yard in San Diego.

Evoforce
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:44 am

DMHLeafer wrote:I have the same experience with my recently "totaled" (front body damage) 2011 SL. Insurance offered me very little for my loss. However, I have the salvage 2011 Leaf with a relatively new battery (installed oct 2015 with about 8k miles). I would be willing to sell it to someone for less than the cost of a new battery. It's currently located in a salvage yard in San Diego.
I have an interest... What is the price?
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

Cor
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:05 am

I want to repeat my offer of $3000 for install of a Lizard battery in someone's 2011 (battery swap, I like to take the old battery)
and I have been in contact with DMHLeafer about his totaled 2011 with Lizard battery - that is the battery I offer to install in your 2011
after removing it from his totaled 2011.
I want to make this risk free for you: if you are not satisfied or I can't get the 2015 battery to work on your car somehow
then I will put your own battery back and all I have lost is my time.
When I install the 2015 Lizard battery on your vehicle and it shows full capacity (12 bars) and it works to your satisfaction
then you give me $3000 for the battery while I get to keep your old battery.
If you are concerned about warranty or other Nissan policies for your vehicle then you will need to contact Nissan to ask,
I can't do that for you.
Please don't let me install the battery and after it works, you change your mind and say you are concerned about warranty,
please do your homework in advance.
I prefer to find someone near Silicon Valley to make this swap and I have this offer outstanding with a neighbor that has a
2011 with marginal battery, so he might decide to jump on it, otherwise I am open to hear who would like to do this swap
(removing the new Lizard battery from the salvage 2011 and bringing it to you, removing your 2011 battery, putting the
Lizard battery it in your car and taking your old battery)
I believe a new battery from Nissan costs $5900 and $1200 install, so you are getting over $7k worth for $3k by accepting
a Lizard battery with a few thousand miles on it and letting me do the install.

Full disclosure: I am not a mechanic, although I love working on cars, I have rebuilt several vehicles, but I am an EE (Electrical Engineer) by trade, so I have dome thing like a full pack design and install on a US Electricar S10 truck (I am about to repeat that with a double Leaf pack on a second US Electricar) I have rebuilt 2 Priuses,
one was bought with front end damage and restored to full operation, the second I swapped a new engine and transaxle (with the electric motors) into and installed a new battery pack. Then I installed two replacement motors (MG2) into two failing Priuses.
Next big thing is to repair a friend's 2005 Hybrid pack and to recharge a completely dead Hybrid battery in another Prius so that
it can at least be started after making repairs. There are many smaller/non-electric repairs I have made but this gives you an idea
about my ability to work with a Leaf pack. Last thing was 3 weeks ago when I picked up a 2011 Leaf pack from SacAuto and since it
was too big to fit in my Prius to take back to the Bay Area, I took it apart on the spot (documented it here on this site as well) so even
the process of opening the pack and safely working on the cells inside is something I am familiar with.

Stoaty
Posts: 4486
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:41 am

I would go for it, but live in Los Angeles, too far away. Darn!
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

Cor
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:21 pm

Hi Stoaty,
Actually my neighbor seems interested in the pack swap so I might do this in my own garage.
If that somehow does not work out then I will contact you to see if we can find a way to do it at your site,
though that will be a lot more challenging, unless you have plenty tools and level working space in the garage...
Cor.

Cor
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:56 pm

OK, neighbor has agreed and tomorrow I will attempt to put the 2015 pack in his car.
Today I borrowed an Android phone, downloaded Leaf Spy and paired it with the Bluetooth ELM327 that I already had
so I was able to see the status of the pack. Wow! 66.14 Ahr SOH 100% (obviously) 394.11V (SoC 89.8%) Hx 100.20%
Almost all cells are within 4.10-4.11V
The Leaf estimated 106 mi range (don't think so)
and tomorrow I will see if there is any issue plopping the pack into another 2011, or that it will be required to "pair" the BMS to the car
as I saw on the work order for the 2015 pack swap - though I suspect that had to do with the 2015 pack to 2011 vehicle compatibility.
We will find out tomorrow, I guess.

Cor
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:53 am
Delivery Date: 07 Jul 2015

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:13 am

(NOTE: post edited to reflect the "battery pairing" issue I ran into) OK, it appears that the car *does* care which battery it is connected to - not only the control connector must fit (the 2011 and 2012 have 4 rows of pins) and the battery must speak the "language" that the car expects, so the car may care less whether it is an original 2011 battery or an upgrade 2015 battery (with 2011 connector and BMS programming), but the battery also must be "paired" with the car, as I found out. The car accepted my pack swap seemingly without issues, but does not want to drive faster than 25-30MPH. Note that I was going from a "warranty replacement" 2015 pack in a salvage 2011 to an original 2011 pack, so the 2015 is now out of the (salvage) car and ready to go into my neighbor's 2011.
The main differences that I noticed are:
1. The 2011 pack has round pin disconnect with a green handle, the 2015 has "blade" style and smaller physical size disconnect with a white handle. It is also offset on the white plastic rectangle on the pack, while the round pin disconnect plug is centered. This makes no difference for the swap as the disconnect stays with the pack.
2. There is a black bracket attached to the back side of a 2015 pack with two 16mm bolts and a 17mm bolt to connect it to the car above the rear axle. Not sure why it is there as the pack is already bolted to the car with 8 17mm bolts that you can only loosen with a 3 ft breaker bar (I use a 3 ft steel pipe on my 12" ratchet with 1/2" drive)
3. The plastic underbody panels under the battery are different shape for the 2011 and the 2015 battery so make sure that these panels fit the battery (stay with the battery when you swap) as otherwise the panels may no longer fit.

Unrelated but relevant is that Nissan has apparently tried to hide pack capacity loss when they reprogrammed the Leaf,
because the 2011 pack has only 52.68 Ah capacity (was originally 64 Ah) so the SoH is 80% and Hx is only 63%
yet the Leaf displays 11 bars which seems wildly optimistic for a loss of 11.32 / 64 = 17.7% capacity. NOTE that this is more than 1/6 of total battery capacity that is lost, so one would reasonably expect that of 12 bars, at least 2 would have disappeared after more than 1/6th loss as that is more than 2/12th: at least 2 bars out of 12. Hmmmm...
Anyway, this pack is still doing OK for a 2011 pack, apparently not suffered much from heat.
Last edited by Cor on Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Valdemar
Posts: 2621
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:08 am

Interesting, I thoughts there were reports stating the car is put into restricted power output mode after a "bootleg" battery is installed, it can be driven but it won't go faster than 30mph or so.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:18 am

Cor wrote:OK, it appears that the car does not care which battery it is connected to ...
Thanks for posting this very good news.
="Cor"
...Unrelated but relevant is that Nissan has apparently tried to hide pack capacity loss when they reprogrammed the Leaf,
because the 2011 pack has only 52.68 Ah capacity (was originally 64 Ah) so the SoH is 80% and Hx is only 63%
yet the Leaf displays 11 bars which seems wildly optimistic for a loss of 11.32 / 64 = 17.7% capacity. NOTE that this is more than 1/6 of total battery capacity that is lost, so one would reasonably expect that of 12 bars, at least 2 would have disappeared after more than 1/6th loss as that is more than 2/12th: at least 2 bars out of 12. Hmmmm...
Anyway, this pack is still doing OK for a 2011 pack, apparently not suffered much from heat
Do I understand you correctly, that the 2015 replacement pack displayed 66.14 Ah when in the totaled LEAF, and displayed only 52.58 Ah and 11 capacity bars on the dash, after you installed it in your neighbor's 2011?

It requires much more than 17.7 % LBC-reported capacity loss to lose the 11th capacity bar, ~21.5% (~15% for the 12th bar, and ~6.5% for each subsequent bar) IIRC.
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