cwerdna
Posts: 9801
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 pm

Kris1 wrote:
What are you going to do w/a 30 kWh pack once you get your hands on it?
I'd like to pull the modules out then swap them into my 2012 nine bar 90km range pack
And you really think it'll be that simple?

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Durandal
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:55 am
Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Leaf Number: 025018
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:45 am

Even if it is that simple, it won't be simple. lol. But there are guys out there building their own versions of the Telsa PowerWall using laptop cells put together.
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf SL, traded it in and now I'm a very happy Tesla Model 3 owner. Reservations for Tesla Model Y and Cyber Truck.

rmay635703
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:04 am

cwerdna wrote:
Kris1 wrote:
What are you going to do w/a 30 kWh pack once you get your hands on it?
I'd like to pull the modules out then swap them into my 2012 nine bar 90km range pack
And you really think it'll be that simple?
If the cells are dimensionally the same and he doesn't expect more than 24kwhr then yes it is.

There is always the chance the system will learn to a bigger capacity but less degrading would be nice?
Last edited by rmay635703 on Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

cwerdna
Posts: 9801
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:25 pm

rmay635703 wrote: If the cells are dimensionally the same and he doesn't expect more than 24kw then yes it is.
Capacity is measured in kWh, not "kw".

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14205
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:38 pm

well keep us posted. until you try it, anything is possible right?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Kris1
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:38 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 200165
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:20 pm

Not expecting simple, would settle for achievable. Probably just a pipe dream, so hard to access the affordable higher capacity modules from down under, feels like I'm on another planet some days. Someone is bound to give it a shot though.

NiallDarwin
Posts: 46
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:58 am
Delivery Date: 12 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 004321
Location: New Zealand

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:24 pm

It’s been a while so here’s a progress update:

Swapping Generation 2 (G2) cells into a Generation 1 (G1) Nissan Leaf project update.

1/ Recap
We swapped the G2 cells into our original G1 case. We kept the wiring, busbars etc from the G2 intact but kept the temp sensors, relays and other non-cell stuff of the G1. Our initial assumption that the Battery Management Computer (BMS) sense leads would be identically wired in both generations was proved wrong when we connected the G1 BMS computer to the G2 loom and, “Let the smoke out”, i.e. burnt some electronics in the BMS. :shock: :oops:
Lesson 1: Don’t make assumptions when a couple of quick tests can provide data.
This was a big problem because it seems that the car will only talk to the BMS it is programmed to. Only Nissan can re-program it and they are not keen on helping. Some research and help from good guys both here on MNL (I’m not going to explain that acronym!) and other places led us to believe that the ID of the BMS is held on one chip, IC9. This chip is fairly easy to move with good hobby solder and de-solder equipment.

2/ Update
We obtained another G1 BMS and set off to try again.
First we swapped the bus bars and sense leads from the G1 cells onto the G2 cells. This wasn’t too bad because the leads are all held nicely in place by the insulators. With some power tools (set to lowest torque) and a decent height workbench it was a quick process. We kept the metalwork structure of the G2 cells and this meant a little modification to the main (rear) cell bank. There’s a bar which goes right across the pack on the G2 which when combined with G1 conductors would perfectly short-out the 200V, 12kWh bank. So we cut down it rather than starting an impressive fire-this was a literal hack using a hacksaw!
Next we de-soldered the all-important chip, IC9, backed up its contents with an EPROM flasher/reader, then soldered it onto our replacement G1 BMS. This all went smoothly.
Bringing the rebuilt cells and BMS together in the G1 case all seemed good. Lid bolted down, battery bolted into car, connections made, park-lock override fuses and 12V reconnected, power button, hmmm. Not good...
We had battery health bars showing but no state of charge (fuel gauge equivalent) and no range, just ---. Leaf spy showed pack voltage OK and SOC at about 40% which is what we expected. However it had no individual cell data. Some head scratching, a realisation and a few choice curses later I realised I hadn’t put the busbar connecting the two smaller cell banks in. :x :oops: :x
Lesson 2: Check your work before testing it.
Off with the 12V and connectors, down with the battery, off with the case, in with the busbar, on with the case, up with the battery, on with the leads and 12V, on with the power button, same result. Its late now and we’re at high mistake risk so tidy up, go home and think.

Three possibilities spring to mind:
1. We fried another BMS. With that busbar out the power may have tried to go through the BMS instead. We’re not sure we heard the isolating relays clunk and so we’re not sure any power has even tried to get through.
2. We messed up on the restart procedure.
3. Something wasn’t right with the new BMS and what we did to it. Firmware issues? Changing IC9 isn’t the magic bullet?

We have our feelers out for anothernother BMS but are not sure what exactly to investigate if this isn’t the cause. We are however enjoying the process. We are learning lots.
Any ideas and theories will be gratefully received and considered :mrgreen:

cwerdna
Posts: 9801
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:18 am

^^^
I'm assuming by "G1", you're referring to 2011 to 2012 model year Leafs and "G2" would be 2013 to 2015?

To me, Leaf is still gen 1, although 2013 was marked a mid-cycle refresh w/significant changes, so maybe call that gen 1.5? Not sure what I'd call 30 kWh models (e.g. 2016 Leaf SV, SL and "S30", 2017 Leaf) other than that.

I'd expect even greater challenges for someone with a 2011 or 2012 trying to get a 30 kWh pack or its cells to work. I doubt Nissan had backwards compatibility in mind during the engineering and design phase.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

sparrow79
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:34 am
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2016

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:43 am

NiallDarwin wrote:It’s been a while so here’s a progress update:

Swapping Generation 2 (G2) cells into a Generation 1 (G1) Nissan Leaf project update.

1/ Recap
We swapped the G2 cells into our original G1 case. We kept the wiring, busbars etc from the G2 intact but kept the temp sensors, relays and other non-cell stuff of the G1. Our initial assumption that the Battery Management Computer (BMS) sense leads would be identically wired in both generations was proved wrong when we connected the G1 BMS computer to the G2 loom and, “Let the smoke out”, i.e. burnt some electronics in the BMS. :shock: :oops:
Lesson 1: Don’t make assumptions when a couple of quick tests can provide data.
This was a big problem because it seems that the car will only talk to the BMS it is programmed to. Only Nissan can re-program it and they are not keen on helping. Some research and help from good guys both here on MNL (I’m not going to explain that acronym!) and other places led us to believe that the ID of the BMS is held on one chip, IC9. This chip is fairly easy to move with good hobby solder and de-solder equipment.

2/ Update
We obtained another G1 BMS and set off to try again.
First we swapped the bus bars and sense leads from the G1 cells onto the G2 cells. This wasn’t too bad because the leads are all held nicely in place by the insulators. With some power tools (set to lowest torque) and a decent height workbench it was a quick process. We kept the metalwork structure of the G2 cells and this meant a little modification to the main (rear) cell bank. There’s a bar which goes right across the pack on the G2 which when combined with G1 conductors would perfectly short-out the 200V, 12kWh bank. So we cut down it rather than starting an impressive fire-this was a literal hack using a hacksaw!
Next we de-soldered the all-important chip, IC9, backed up its contents with an EPROM flasher/reader, then soldered it onto our replacement G1 BMS. This all went smoothly.
Bringing the rebuilt cells and BMS together in the G1 case all seemed good. Lid bolted down, battery bolted into car, connections made, park-lock override fuses and 12V reconnected, power button, hmmm. Not good...
We had battery health bars showing but no state of charge (fuel gauge equivalent) and no range, just ---. Leaf spy showed pack voltage OK and SOC at about 40% which is what we expected. However it had no individual cell data. Some head scratching, a realisation and a few choice curses later I realised I hadn’t put the busbar connecting the two smaller cell banks in. :x :oops: :x
Lesson 2: Check your work before testing it.
Off with the 12V and connectors, down with the battery, off with the case, in with the busbar, on with the case, up with the battery, on with the leads and 12V, on with the power button, same result. Its late now and we’re at high mistake risk so tidy up, go home and think.

Three possibilities spring to mind:
1. We fried another BMS. With that busbar out the power may have tried to go through the BMS instead. We’re not sure we heard the isolating relays clunk and so we’re not sure any power has even tried to get through.
2. We messed up on the restart procedure.
3. Something wasn’t right with the new BMS and what we did to it. Firmware issues? Changing IC9 isn’t the magic bullet?

We have our feelers out for anothernother BMS but are not sure what exactly to investigate if this isn’t the cause. We are however enjoying the process. We are learning lots.
Any ideas and theories will be gratefully received and considered :mrgreen:
I believe that the user Cor has done that swap... maybe he could help... try to contact him.

Foschas
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:35 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Jul 2015
Leaf Number: 320277
Location: Mass

Re: Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:01 am

NiallDarwin wrote:It’s been a while so here’s a progress update:

Swapping Generation 2 (G2) cells into a Generation 1 (G1) Nissan Leaf project update.

1/ Recap
We swapped the G2 cells into our original G1 case.
No advice but lots of encouragement. Fascinating read, thanks for the update.

Good luck!
2019 Leaf SV Pearl White, Cold Weather Package
Traded in 2015 Leaf S Grey, Quick Charge Package 49,000 Miles 12 Bars

Return to “Pacific USA”