TEG
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Re: Planning for EV Rally, BC 2 BC June 2013 !!!!

Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:36 pm

Some of the EV old timers think that these long distance rallys are a bit of a PR blunder.
They point out the limitations in EVs with things like wait times for highway charging & charger reliability/maintenance concerns in rural areas.
Also they force the need to maximize range (e.g.: by driving really slowly) which can annoy other cars.

People really want to say "see, an EV makes a perfectly good long distance road trip car", but short of a 85kWh Model S on a Supercharger route, I think we are far from there yet.

EVs at slow speeds in a city parade make more sense to me. People notice the quiet, and the lack of smelly fumes... Even better - take the parade indoors where gas cars are not permitted.

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TomT
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Re: Planning for EV Rally, BC 2 BC June 2013 !!!!

Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:48 pm

I don't disagree. It reminds me, to a certain extent, of the rallies they ran in the early 20th century with the then-new-fangled cars to try and prove the same points, and also would up re-enforcing the same negative impressions...
TEG wrote:Some of the EV old timers think that these long distance rallys are a bit of a PR blunder.
They point out the limitations in EVs with things like wait times for highway charging & charger reliability/maintenance concerns in rural areas.
Also they force the need to maximize range (e.g.: by driving really slowly) which can annoy other cars.
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TEG
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Re: Planning for EV Rally, BC 2 BC June 2013 !!!!

Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:16 pm

Yes. It will be nice when it can "go off perfect without a hitch", and no one complains of range anxiety, heater energy use anxiety, charge wait anxiety, ICEd charger anxiety, broken charger anxiety, battery overheat, battery range reduction, etc, etc. Just be prepared for some downsides to the whole thing.

I suppose you could say that this sort of "trial by fire" can "improve the breed" by motivating more manufacturers to build a product better suited to such endeavors...
But for now, I think cars like the LEAF are really intended mostly for use as a commuter vehicle staying relatively close to home most of the time.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Planning for EV Rally, BC 2 BC June 2013 !!!!

Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:30 pm

TEG wrote:Some of the EV old timers think that these long distance rallys are a bit of a PR blunder.
Tough break for them. Not a single person of the HUNDREDS I bumped into on my trip this summer thought that way.

Levenkay
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Re: Planning for EV Rally, BC 2 BC June 2013 !!!!

Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:09 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
Levenkay wrote:So as to lessen the chance's of presenting a spectacle of string's of LEAF car's smoking or on fire, though, wouldn't it be better to plan any such rally for a cooler time of year? Even at near-freezing ambients, a LEAF battery pack will get awfully toasty by the fifth or sixth QC.
EVs don't handle cold well (diminished capacity and huge increase in power consumption).
The LEAF handles it worse than virtually every other EV out there, since they have TMS.
Don't like snow, cold, fog, overcast and rain.
Cooler temps don't aren't nirvana for quick charging (it's actually slower)
I used 10 quick chargers in June 2012 without incident (yes, the battery got hot)
Nobody expects fires on DC chargers... But maybe on Blinks with 6.6kW LEAFs.
I have to accept your verdict, I guess. Seemsta me, though, that everything BUT the battery ought to work better the cooler it is. Copper has a positive tempco, so all the wiring losses go down in the cold. Ditto for the power conversion electronics. That only leaves the battery, which, thanks to its poor heat dissipation, ought to self-heat to six bars by the 2nd or 3rd QC. After that, as far as the battery is concerned, it IS summer.

Your point about precipitation is a good one, though.

BIGneutrino
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Re: Planning for EV Rally, BC 2 BC June 2013 !!!!

Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:39 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
BIGneutrino wrote:
LEAFer wrote:Just my 2c: The 6/29 sounds good ... with INDEPENDENCE DAY so close ... the rally can celebrate 7/4 !
This sounds like a blast. I started my web browsing tonight looking for SCCA road rallies suitable for our LEAF, and found this thread. If the rally starts 6/29, I am in.
Where do you live? I'm curious if we get more folks hauling cars in at the beginning, or the end of the event!

For me, I can drive home afterward without even a recharge.

Did you find the thread on the all-EV "ReFuel" Event at Laguna Seca on July 1, 2012? With any luck, we'll be able to work that in, too.
We're 30 miles north of Seattle. I'm looking at three options--both with planning on a north to south drive. 1)Rally to SoCal, ship the LEAF back to Seattle, and fly/train back home. 2)Rally to SoCal, my wife and kids fly down and meet me for a few days at Disneyland and fly the family back home (and ship the LEAF). 3)Same as "2", but road tripping back to Seattle with my family. I have all of July off, so time isn't a concern.
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Re: Planning for EV Rally, BC 2 BC June 2013 !!!!

Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:35 pm

I'm used to the PlugShare orange blimps (level 3s) for Washington and Oregon. Has anybody gone I-5 from Medford to Redding?
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Re: Planning for EV Rally, BC 2 BC June 2013 !!!!

Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:45 pm

BIGneutrino wrote:I'm used to the PlugShare orange blimps (level 3s) for Washington and Oregon. Has anybody gone I-5 from Medford to Redding?
Yes. BC2BC Return. Used an RV park and a proprietary Tesla Roadster plug (with borrowed adapter) in Yreka.
See here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=50" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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TEG
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Re: Planning for EV Rally, BC 2 BC June 2013 !!!!

Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:40 am

TonyWilliams wrote:EVs don't handle cold well (diminished capacity and huge increase in power consumption).
Levenkay wrote:I have to accept your verdict, I guess. Seemsta me, though, that everything BUT the battery ought to work better the cooler it is. Copper has a positive tempco, so all the wiring losses go down in the cold. Ditto for the power conversion electronics. That only leaves the battery, which, thanks to its poor heat dissipation, ought to self-heat to six bars by the 2nd or 3rd QC. After that, as far as the battery is concerned, it IS summer...
Some say that colder air is more dense and so causes the car to use more energy to push through it, particularly at highway speeds.
Probably the biggest reason for less range in winter is use of the (electric) heater, though...

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Re: Planning for EV Rally, BC 2 BC June 2013 !!!!

Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:34 am

TEG wrote:Some say that colder air is more dense and so causes the car to use more energy to push through it, particularly at highway speeds.
Probably the biggest reason for less range in winter is use of the (electric) heater, though...
Colder air is more dense, so if you drive faster this has more of an impact on range than it would in warmer ambient. However, the Heater is the big doozy, it can eat 10% without much trouble even if it's set as low as possible, and it is WORSE if you drive slow! I just heard from one of our customers (in Mill Valley) who is commuting every day with my climate control upgrade and he reports it makes about 15% difference in range for his commute! (It's running about 45-65 around here right now.) That's a savings of about 3kWh per day, so assuming he's paying about $.15 per kWh (probably more), He's saving enough each year to pay for the upgrade within 2 years. So it's essentially free to have the extra range if you need it. The only side effect is you must dress warmer! :)

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