LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:41 pm

If there's one thing internet journalism lacks, it's journalism.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1064
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:40 am

I don’t know if it’s just due to lack of supply of EVs in general or a solid ownership base, but Leaf sales do seem to be swinging up in Europe. Outlander is also doing great. I wonder how that will translate in the Chademo vs ccs discussions there. You could make the case that Europe even more than the US needs to keep both standards.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1064
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:23 pm

More and more German reviews are showing up now. Wonder if it will drive more sales, given the price premium the car carries there.

https://youtu.be/sjoAZVjpMEw

Netherlands
https://youtu.be/gIF78yd31RU
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1064
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:41 pm

2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

Kieran973
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2019
Location: near NY, NY

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:00 pm

Now that it's been out for a little while, can any Leaf Plus owners comment on real world highway range?

I'm particularly wondering two things:

1. What are the warm weather real world highway ranges of the S Plus vs the SV Plus (with the All-Weather Package)? Let's say the conditions are 65 mph, 70 degrees F ambient, AC set to 70 F with fan speed at 2 bars, relatively flat roads, no precipitation, and little to no headwinds.

2. What are the cold weather real world highway ranges of the S Plus vs the SV Plus (with the All-Weather Package)? Let's say the conditions are 65 mph, 30 degrees F ambient, heat set to 70 F with fan speed at 2 bars, relatively flat roads, no precipitation, and little to no headwinds.

In my own 40 kWh SV, the real world range under the conditions in question 1 is about 150 miles and under the conditions in question 2 about 120 miles. So about exactly EPA range in ideal warm weather conditions and about 80% of EPA range in moderate winter conditions. Can the same be said of the S Plus and SV Plus? Since the SV Plus with All-Weather Package has a heat pump while the S Plus does not, is the S Plus' winter range less than 80% EPA? Ultimately, the reason I'm asking is I'm trying to get a ballpark idea of how different it would be to make 250ish mile drives (NYC to Boston, NYC to DC) in the 40 kWh Leaf vs the 62 kWh Leaf.
2019 Leaf SV (silver) with All-Weather Package

cwerdna
Posts: 9812
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:42 am

^^^
It might be tough as there aren't many folks here with Leaf Pluses, let alone both an S Plus and an SV Plus.

FWIW, from https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do ... 1&id=40520, not sure if you'd noticed that the Plus SV and SL actually have only 215 mile EPA range rating vs. 226 miles on the S Plus.

Side note: 259 mile EPA range 2020 Bolts have hit dealer lots. One guy who works at a local dealer posted a pic of one w/one of the new colors. He said 40 arrived yesterday. Unfortunately, AFAIK, GM didn't add a heat pump so it's still a crap power pig resistive heater. And, AFAIK, DC DC max speed hasn't improved. :( But, if it's like previous Bolts, you should be able to do a full 55 kW (on a high enough amperage DC FC) from 0 to ~55% over and over in a day due to liquid battery cooling.

However, DC charging might be a bit slow at the beginning if the battery's cold. There is a heater for the battery coolant but it's not real powerful and thus take awhile to heat up the battery coolant.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

dmacarthur
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 306556
Location: Vermont

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:11 am

Having an S Plus for the last 2 months I can give a sort of ballpark on this: you will not see 250 miles between cities even in the best weather. POSSIBLY around town, or on roads where speeds are lower, but doubtful. We regularly got the equivalent of around 220 in October when it was warm and driving slowly, we have gotten as bad as the equivalent of 180 on interstate with heat and lights in cooler weather. Probably going to be even less in colder weather i.e. ten below this January. Ballpark estimates are that, of the 220 or so potential, we lose about 10-15% when driving 65-70 MPH, and up to 30% when using heat or defrost. We have heated seats which is a must, do not consider an S unless it has the seats.... Since Chademo tops out at about 80% of the above, we have found ourselves charging every 150-180 miles or so.
2015 Leaf sold
2019 Leaf Plus S as of 9/30/19

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1064
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:50 am

I have had my Plus SV since June and have done longer trips in hot weather (90F+) and in cool weather (40s). As a preface, my tires are kept at 42-45psi, near the upper limit on the Michelin tires.

During my longer single charge trips (Chicago north side to Iowa City and Bloomington Iowa) I have found that 220 miles is doable at 65-70 in warm weather and flat terrain and some AC, but the 245 miles to Bloomington required some speed reduction (to 55ish) at times and power MGMT to be safe (I arrived with 1% on dash and 5kWh left in battery). If you are going to be pressing range, you need to use LeafSpy to ensure you understand remaining power. In the coldest weather at 70mph, I would not plan on anything above 180 miles as a colder battery and thicker air to cut efficiency as accelerating rates as you go faster. Around town you can do better (even 300+ miles if you are easy in the throttle and coast to lights when possible). Key for long drives is power MGMT and keeping a steady foot to keep a constant power level. If you face a heavy head wind, you can take a pretty significant range reduction (or boost if tail wind). This is true for all electric cars given how much more efficient they are compared to ICEs.

The unknown for us is rare of battery degradation, as this is a new chemistry. My SOH is sitting a bit above 97% after 6K miles and 6 months, but it’s too early to tell what’s going to happen.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14226
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:33 am

Kieran973 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:00 pm
Now that it's been out for a little while, can any Leaf Plus owners comment on real world highway range?

I'm particularly wondering two things:

1. What are the warm weather real world highway ranges of the S Plus vs the SV Plus (with the All-Weather Package)? Let's say the conditions are 65 mph, 70 degrees F ambient, AC set to 70 F with fan speed at 2 bars, relatively flat roads, no precipitation, and little to no headwinds.

2. What are the cold weather real world highway ranges of the S Plus vs the SV Plus (with the All-Weather Package)? Let's say the conditions are 65 mph, 30 degrees F ambient, heat set to 70 F with fan speed at 2 bars, relatively flat roads, no precipitation, and little to no headwinds.

In my own 40 kWh SV, the real world range under the conditions in question 1 is about 150 miles and under the conditions in question 2 about 120 miles. So about exactly EPA range in ideal warm weather conditions and about 80% of EPA range in moderate winter conditions. Can the same be said of the S Plus and SV Plus? Since the SV Plus with All-Weather Package has a heat pump while the S Plus does not, is the S Plus' winter range less than 80% EPA? Ultimately, the reason I'm asking is I'm trying to get a ballpark idea of how different it would be to make 250ish mile drives (NYC to Boston, NYC to DC) in the 40 kWh Leaf vs the 62 kWh Leaf.
1) 270 with A/C variable. Setting it to 70º I found to be a bit cold for me. My 40 seemed to not have any temperature control so comfort was set by fan speed. In some cases, toggling was needed but generally ran at fan speed 2.

2) I don't know what kind of "real" world you live in but there is nearly nowhere here that one can drive any distance without significant slowdowns. On my initial trip home about 85 miles, I got home with 65% SOC (on dash) 69% LS. It was 95% freeway with light rain in high 40's. I used no heat but it was new car and defrost was frequently necessary and as always, new car glass seems to have a film that causes it to fog more than normal.

There were slowdowns covering 10-15 miles at 30-50 mph, another stretch, maybe 5 miles of 0-20 mph, and another that was about 5 miles of speeds 20-30 mph. The rest was 60-70 mph probably just over 65 mph average (LEAF speedo)


Another metric; My commute 25 miles roundtrip. I started at 80% SOC (210 miles on GOM) drove 5 days, ended with 50 miles. Trip is 7½ miles freeway, 5 miles surface streets at 35-45 mph. Morning commute slower with 2 mile slowdown to 30-40 mph. Afternoon is clear generally all at 70-75 mph. Total distance this week 127 miles. It was mixed wet/dry. Nothing heavy. Used heat a bit on 2 days in morning when temps were below 30º

Guessing this will help little but then again, that is simply the nature of what you are asking. The better metric is simply taking an average during a month of Winter verses a month of Summer.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
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webeleafowners
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:53 am

For us in our 2016 SV it is more a matter of needing defrost than heat. If we could set the temperature at 14 or 15 we would. Wintertime means we have multiple layers on and 20-22 (70 ish in Fahrenheit????) is just too freakin warm.

Most speed limits in the bc interior are 90 to 110 mph even on the Trans Canada highway. Getting rated EPA range is EASY in warmer weather. One of our routes we take fairly often is Vernon to Penticton. Something like 115 kmh. We usually pull into the Penticton Chademo with over 50 percent in warm weather or 40 ish percent in cooler weather. Lots of little towns along the way that slow you down to 50 or 60 kmh. Speed kills range. I’m willing to bet that in the conditions we drive 400 km of range will be doable in the SL plus...albeit unnecessary as there are no shortage of DCFC in the province. Even specific trips we do of 445 km are not inconvenient in a 30KWH Leaf. Mostly because I have a prostate the size of a grapefruit and I like my Starbucks...so frequent stops are a thing. :).

Just my two bits.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

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