Possible Leaf Gen 3

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The media I read made it sound as though the report was only talking about the UK plant manufacturing plans. Maybe it is the harbinger to things to be the world over, or not. Since that UK plant supplies all of Europe, it is pretty far reaching in scope no matter what.

As for what "it" is, my read was that a new model EV is replacing the LEAF, but not until 2025. Still going to use AESC manufactured cells. No word on thermal management.

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The cynic in me says that Nissan was faced with a UK plant it could not shut down politically, a contract with AESC they decided not to default on, and a very old and severely outdated LEAF design. I expect a new skin and taller body on the same frame, CCS, and ***maybe*** (but probably not) thermal control.

That is what LEAF 2.5 should have been; and if the 62 kWh battery is really holding up as well as our forum anecdotes suggest, they just might have a competitive car for the less expensive side of the market that will tolerate 50 - 70 kW DC fast charging. Nissan is just being pragmatic and its normal penny pinching self, but I like the approach. Let's just hope Nissan has enough sense to put in a sliding charge option.
 
A sliding charge option would be quite helpful.

I will be careful with the word "often", but on road trips, its common we will stop for an extended meal (say 90 minutes) around lunch in which a 30 or 35 kW charge rate would work really well for and reduce the thermal load/heating on the battery.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
A sliding charge option would be quite helpful.

I will be careful with the word "often", but on road trips, its common we will stop for an extended meal (say 90 minutes) around lunch in which a 30 or 35 kW charge rate would work really well for and reduce the thermal load/heating on the battery.

That is a good maneuver for the tinkerers, but I was more thinking of the 'set it and forget it' crowd -- those that plug in and start charging when they get home and let the car stew at 100% SoC until the next day. I understand the reasoning -- they want the car to be 'ready' if they use it again the same day. Perhaps a middle ground could be possible: immediate charge to 70% SoC or so, and then a top-off to a high SoC not too long before the usual car use.

One thing is for certain though: no option to end charging below 100% SoC is stupid, and doubly so for packs without thermal control.
 
SageBrush said:
and ***maybe*** (but probably not) thermal control.

That is what LEAF 2.5 should have been; and if the 62 kWh battery is really holding up as well as our forum anecdotes suggest, they just might have a competitive car for the less expensive side of the market that will tolerate 50 - 70 kW DC fast charging. Nissan is just being pragmatic and its normal penny pinching self, but I like the approach. Let's just hope Nissan has enough sense to put in a sliding charge option.

Thermal control is necessary for high performance. Might be slightly desirable in hot places. Probably not desirable for the less expensive side of the market. Passive cooling is cheaper and safer.
 
WetEV said:
SageBrush said:
and ***maybe*** (but probably not) thermal control.

That is what LEAF 2.5 should have been; and if the 62 kWh battery is really holding up as well as our forum anecdotes suggest, they just might have a competitive car for the less expensive side of the market that will tolerate 50 - 70 kW DC fast charging. Nissan is just being pragmatic and its normal penny pinching self, but I like the approach. Let's just hope Nissan has enough sense to put in a sliding charge option.

Thermal control is necessary for high performance. Might be slightly desirable in hot places. Probably not desirable for the less expensive side of the market. Passive cooling is cheaper and safer.
Thermal control is needed for DCFC by 70 kW in a 62 kWh pack. You can call that 'high performance' if you want to. I say this because the current + LEAF demonstrates that 70 kW is possible, but only with rapid-gating some of the time. So the better pigeon-holing of my presumed LEAF3 is 70 kW with rapid-gating. It better be in the $20k -- $25k range, preferably on the low side of that range, ideally below $20k.
 
SageBrush said:
WetEV said:
Thermal control is necessary for high performance. Might be slightly desirable in hot places. Probably not desirable for the less expensive side of the market. Passive cooling is cheaper and safer.
Thermal control is needed for DCFC by 70 kW in a 62 kWh pack. You can call that 'high performance' if you want to. I say this because the current + LEAF demonstrates that 70 kW is possible, but only with rapid-gating some of the time. So the better pigeon-holing of my presumed LEAF3 is 70 kW with rapid-gating. It better be in the $20k -- $25k range, preferably on the low side of that range, ideally below $20k.

You don't need DCFC much if at all for a commuting/around the city or town car. Even with "rapidgate", fairly long trips are possible. Especially with larger batteries likely in the future.

Solid state batteries having higher temperature range will make thermal control less useful.
 
WetEV said:
You don't need DCFC much if at all for a commuting/around the city or town car. Even with "rapidgate", fairly long trips are possible. Especially with larger batteries likely in the future.
This is easily true already with the 62 kWh pack.

But therein lies the rub. If the LEAF is the commuter car in the family then 40 kWh packs are fine too. Heck, my wife is mostly happy with a 24 kWh LEAF that has 17% battery degradation we routinely charge to 80 SoC. But LEAF as a single car in the household is in a different league where people want to drive 500+ miles any time of the year and not end up with travel times that reflect an average trip speed of 30 - 40 mph. And the market truth in the USA seems to be that people do not want 1/2 cars, even when that car is not the trip car. Don't ask me why -- I think they are awesome.
 
WetEV said:
SageBrush said:
and ***maybe*** (but probably not) thermal control.

That is what LEAF 2.5 should have been; and if the 62 kWh battery is really holding up as well as our forum anecdotes suggest, they just might have a competitive car for the less expensive side of the market that will tolerate 50 - 70 kW DC fast charging. Nissan is just being pragmatic and its normal penny pinching self, but I like the approach. Let's just hope Nissan has enough sense to put in a sliding charge option.

Thermal control is necessary for high performance. Might be slightly desirable in hot places. Probably not desirable for the less expensive side of the market. Passive cooling is cheaper and safer.
Thermal control is only needed to maximize the battery life. That it helps to control temps during DCFC is an added benefit. If you don't mind throwing the car away after 150,000 miles because the cost to replace the battery is more than the car is worth then you don't need to worry about active temp management. As long as it makes it past the 100,000 mile warranty, Nissan doesn't care what happens to the battery. They'll just sell you another car. The 60KWH battery will easily go 100,000 mi (700 charge cycles at 150mi/charge) and anyone who buys a 40KWH probably doesn't plan to drive a lot and will most likely time out the 8 year warranty limit. Even at 100mi/charge, you only need a 1000 charge cycles to make it to the warranty limit. Nissan designed a low cost car meant for urban use, Works well in Europe and Asia but not so well in North America. Ariya will correct some of the problems with the Leaf (active cooling, still bigger battery for more range, and CCS charging).

What it won't change is Nissan's attitude about support or longevity. As long as warranty costs are within projected limits, build quality doesn't really matter. Nissan will continue to shave pennies instead of spending a few dollars more for a quality design.
 
The title of this post, Leaf 3.0, is misleading - this is the demise of the LEAF, not a new gen.

Also, I don't understand why people are speculating that the new crossover will be based on the LEAF platform as it states clearly in the news release:

The purely electric crossover model based on the Alliance platform CMF-EV announced by Nissan in the summer is to replace the Nissan Leaf from around 2025

This crossover will almost certainly be CCS, actively cooled, and with a larger pack. Nothing short of that would sell when almost every other competitor of note will offer all three of those things, not to mention 100 kW+ charging rates.
 
alozzy said:
The title of this post, Leaf 3.0, is misleading - this is the demise of the LEAF, not a new gen.

Also, I don't understand why people are speculating that the new crossover will be based on the LEAF platform as it states clearly in the news release:

The purely electric crossover model based on the Alliance platform CMF-EV announced by Nissan in the summer is to replace the Nissan Leaf from around 2025

This crossover will almost certainly be CCS, actively cooled, and with a larger pack. Nothing short of that would sell when almost every other competitor of note will offer all three of those things, not to mention 100 kW+ charging rates.

Yah. I tend to agree. I’m kinda sad to see the leaf name go though. One of the best cars we ever owned and a great, comfortable and homey feeling commuter. Always looked forward to getting in the leaf and spend some time on the road at the end of the day.
 
alozzy said:
The title of this post, Leaf 3.0, is misleading - this is the demise of the LEAF, not a new gen.

Also, I don't understand why people are speculating that the new crossover will be based on the LEAF platform as it states clearly in the news release:

The purely electric crossover model based on the Alliance platform CMF-EV announced by Nissan in the summer is to replace the Nissan Leaf from around 2025
Car brands transcend their platforms all the time. It will be called LEAF if the brand has value.
 
jlv said:
alozzy said:
The title of this post, Leaf 3.0, is misleading - this is the demise of the LEAF, not a new gen.
Title updated.

It still may be called a LEAF.

Look at everything Ford has called a Mustang.

Or that Honda has called a Civic.

Or that Toyota has called a Corolla.

Please replace the title with the one I chose. Don't like, start your own topic.
 
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