Luft
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:45 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:http://www.thestreet.com/story/12554189 ... -leaf.html

Is this substantiated in any way? $4k price increase seems like a detail not just pulled from thin air.
His basic premise is correct: The range of electric cars will increase. After that it's all speculation. He bases his speculation on the perceived importance of a “first to market” strategy and paraphrases part of something that General Douglas MacArthur said as support for his speculation. The author said: “General Douglas MacArthur used to say that behind every lost battle there are two words: Too late.”

Wahlman may be correct in his assertion; there is a lot to say about proper timing. However, committing one's resources too early in a rapidly evolving technology can also be a mistake. Wahlman states that “The industry has widely pointed to 200-mile electric cars being available in 2016 or 2017.” He supports this assertion with reports about GM and Audi preparing to release longer range electric vehicles.

I can't put too much stock in what GM says with regards to all electric vehicles and the web site that Wahlman links to entitled: “Audi R8 e-Tron Electric Supercar Nearly Ready For Production” doesn't even make sense in the context of his article. The Audi R8 e-Tron is a very expensive car that will not be competing with the Nissan LEAF. It may well be a concern for Elon musk and the model S if Audi actually puts the car into production.

For what it's worth, I think that if Nissan is smart they will keep working on better batteries and keep the form factor of the batteries the same between models. When they do develop a battery that will give them a significant boost they'll be ready to start slapping them into their cars. At the same time eliminate the fear of current LEAF owners that if their batteries fail there may not be replacements. On my gas guzzler I can have the motor rebuilt but if the form factor on the LEAF batteries changes I might not be able to replace them at a reasonable price. I also like the idea that if battery improvements allow a greater range I won't be left behind like I was with my 3.3 kW charger.
Luft
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EVDRIVER
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:47 am

smkettner wrote:I can tell you that the extra 50 miles makes for a huge improvement. Nissan is a little late to market for me. And I am not sure I would trust the battery longevity again until there are some five year 75k mile reports on how the range holds up.

I wonder if this improvement is an answer to the Honda & Toyota hydrogen vehicles to be out next year.

Good luck Nissan. Sooner the better for the update.
Wow, no one here would have ever considered 50 miles would make a difference, thanks! Please don't forget how successful the present LEAF is now and that many people are content and their needs are met by the present range of the LEAF. Clearly there will be extended range options in the future and this was expected from day one but cost is the factor like anything else. Many obvious comments to some guys opinion likely pushing an agenda and his specific needs. Nothing we don't already know 10X over.

gsleaf
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Re: Jim Cramer article on The Street.com

Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:49 am

Link since it wasn't included: http://www.thestreet.com/story/12554189 ... -leaf.html

edit: apparently that's the same story, wrong source.
Last edited by gsleaf on Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

dhanson865
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:27 am

So if I understand the article he thinks fall 2014 will see a new Leaf with a bigger battery. I'm assuming that would be the 2015 model sold in 2014. Or is it a 2015 model announced in 2014 and not sold until 2015?

And how many KW are we talking? Are we assuming a simple 48KW doubling of the existing battery?
Last edited by dhanson865 on Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kmp647
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:32 am

I know this is a lot of speculation, but its plain to see the future sucess of the Leaf or Nissan EV will depend on larger capacity batteries and longer range. I believe Nissan will see a sales plateau in 2014 which will only be broken by a redesign, and or longer range option for the 2015 Leaf. read this as , whatever 2014 sales are Leaf would never sell much above that level ever unless it was offered with significantly longer range and improved styling. Now they might well capture some additional sales by offering the E-nv200 , but it might also steal sales from the Leaf.
To grow its market capture they will need a much improved range .

ask yourself if you would buy or lease another , say a 2015 or 2016 model if there were some minor improvements but no additional range?

I know my answer , no way.
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Re: Jim Cramer article on The Street.com

Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:38 am

That does not seem to be from Cramer.
Nissan to Extend Electric Car Leadership With 135-Mile Leaf
BY Anton Wahlman| 03/27/14 - 06:00 AM EDT
Michael

Leaf from 31 March 2011 - Traded 18 April 2019 for Tesla Model 3 Unicorn
Driving electric since 1996


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EdmondLeaf
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Re: Jim Cramer article on The Street.com

Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:44 am


gsleaf
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Re: Jim Cramer article on The Street.com

Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:45 am

palmermd wrote:That does not seem to be from Cramer.
oops. :P

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:01 am

kmp647 wrote:ask yourself if you would buy or lease another , say a 2015 or 2016 model if there were some minor improvements but no additional range?
There's a good chance I would/will, but only if it's a reeeeaaaaaalllly good deal. No more making bad personal finance decisions to support a "cause", been there done that.

Some Wharton genius type should have figured out by now that these things fly off the lot at giveaway prices/lease rates... just by looking at Atlanta. That same guy might have also noticed that they also fly off the lot at much higher prices if they have more range and don't look dorky... just by looking at Tesla. Nissan may be attempting to triangulate between those two points and get some pricing power where they could actually (gasp) make a profit.
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gatedad11
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:36 am

I'd seriously "consider" it, if I could get the car's upgrades for a great price. Meaning, the "heat pump" heater, 6.6 on board charger, QC option, and such. Having said that, I'd rather pay a little more and get an additional 50 miles of range. If this increased battery size becomes a legitimate option, then it would stand to reason that the current battery sized LEAFS should cost much less new. The gist of the article(which may be pie in the sky right now, but may also have basis in fact, I don't know) rings true though. People really want more range, or at least larger batteries. Case in point: I drive an I-MiEV, with a smaller battery. Tomorrow morning I have to pick up my son at the airport. It's 42 miles each way for me. The EV is out, as I don't have QC capability and there are not many QC's stations yet in Philly, anyway. But the EV car might be out even if I had a LEAF with the additional 10-15 miles of range. But 135 mile range battery would give me all the comfort and sense of security I'd need to make that trip. It would essentially eliminate the need to have the QC option or the need to Level II charge at some point during the trip. I don't know that I agree fully that the Model E is the threat(but I concede it has some leverage here). Frankly, given the Model S' styling and features, it's a luxury car geared to the wealthy, and I don't think the Model E is going to drop down into the more moderate level that the LEAF is. Hard for me to see that "E" going for less than $40,000. No way Elon is going to not include lots of great options, but they will cost you. But the existence of competing cars with larger batteries will push Nissan to get to that magic number I see all the time---200 miles. Most of us could exist quite nicely with a 135-150 mile range for sure, but 200 miles is a great number to eventually shoot for.

Lou

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