pkulak
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:34 pm

GRA wrote: 40 miles under ideal conditions can mean well under 20 in worst case conditions. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see a large market for cars whose utility is even more limited by range than the new ones are, no matter their price. Is there really a significant market for what are essentially NHTSA standards-compatible NEVs? I doubt it. If Nissan could just 'pop new batteries in them' and make a decent return, they could also provide a price for those same new batteries to their current customers that wouldn't give them apoplexy.
Well, those worst conditions are Minnesota on the freeway in a blizzard. Everywhere I need to be during the week is under 10 miles one way from my house and the lowest we saw last winter was 17 for about an hour one night. And these wouldn't be NEVs. Super low range, maybe, but with around-view monitor and leather? Doesn't seem too shabby to me, if the price is right.

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evnow
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:20 pm

GRA wrote:40 miles under ideal conditions can mean well under 20 in worst case conditions.
Worst condition would be zero - since you can always find such conditions. But let us not pretend these are frequent scenarios for majority of consumers.
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Nubo
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:48 pm

dm33 wrote:
Stoaty wrote:
dm33 wrote: 1) He claimed a larger capacity LEAF is on the way. He kept referring to a 125 mile LEAF.
2) He said he's ridden in LEAFs with varying size packs up to 48kwh but said that took up trunk space, added significant weight, was substantially more expensive and therefore consumers wouldn't be interested in it.
His (the Nissan manager, not dm33) statements appear to conflict with each other... move on folks, nothing to see here.
In #2, is referring to the 48kwh battery. The statements do not conflict. He's stating that it's a smaller battery than 48kwh.
You'd need 48kWh or close to it for what most people would consider a "true" 125 mile LEAF.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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evnow
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:07 pm

Nubo wrote:You'd need 48kWh or close to it for what most people would consider a "true" 125 mile LEAF.
24 kwh battery gives us 84 EPA miles. So, 48 kWh should give close to double that range - may be a few miles less because of added weight i.e. 160 miles.

BTW, your assertion of "most people" is without substance.
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Nubo
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:29 pm

evnow wrote:
Nubo wrote:You'd need 48kWh or close to it for what most people would consider a "true" 125 mile LEAF.
24 kwh battery gives us 84 EPA miles. So, 48 kWh should give close to double that range - may be a few miles less because of added weight i.e. 160 miles.

BTW, your assertion of "most people" is without substance.
When people come onto MYN, asking "will LEAF work for me....?" anyone with a regular trip over about 60 miles is generally advised to either look elsewhere, or be VERY careful with their plans and expectations. This is the context in which I made my statement, not the EPA range estimate.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

DougWantsALeaf
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:32 pm

At an eco fair this weekend north of Chicago, the local leaf dealership present also had heard unconfirmed speculation from Nissan that range would go up in 2015 model.

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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:24 pm

GRA wrote: Not if no one wants all the cars coming off lease, which is almost certainly the current situation. The iMiEV at 62 miles EPA is too short ranged for many people when new; how many people will value a used LEAF that starts with a range of 40 miles or less under ideal conditions?
Lots and lots of people will want off lease Leafs. People said the same thing about the Prius when it first came out also. Don't forget that virtually all of the off lease Leafs will still be under the battery warranty.

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evnow
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:33 pm

Nubo wrote:When people come onto MYN, asking "will LEAF work for me....?" anyone with a regular trip over about 60 miles is generally advised to either look elsewhere, or be VERY careful with their plans and expectations. This is the context in which I made my statement, not the EPA range estimate.
But the context is what some Nissan manager apparently said. He should be talking from EPA range perspective.

Moreover - the reason "most people" are asking about 100+ range BEV, it is because they are thinking about winter range and possible degradation, already.
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GRA
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:18 pm

jelloslug wrote:
GRA wrote: Not if no one wants all the cars coming off lease, which is almost certainly the current situation. The iMiEV at 62 miles EPA is too short ranged for many people when new; how many people will value a used LEAF that starts with a range of 40 miles or less under ideal conditions?
Lots and lots of people will want off lease Leafs. People said the same thing about the Prius when it first came out also. Don't forget that virtually all of the off lease Leafs will still be under the battery warranty.
Hardly the same situations - The Prius retains its original performance, the same as any other ICE at the end of the lease, and the LEAF's is reduced from what, when new, was already viewed as inadequate by the majority of consumers.
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The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:26 pm

evnow wrote:
Nubo wrote:When people come onto MYN, asking "will LEAF work for me....?" anyone with a regular trip over about 60 miles is generally advised to either look elsewhere, or be VERY careful with their plans and expectations. This is the context in which I made my statement, not the EPA range estimate.
But the context is what some Nissan manager apparently said. He should be talking from EPA range perspective.

Moreover - the reason "most people" are asking about 100+ range BEV, it is because they are thinking about winter range and possible degradation, already.
If so, that's a big improvement in general knowledge from a couple of years ago and a major difference from 2011 or 2012, when anyone who pointed out that winter conditions and battery degradation needed to be taken into account when considering if a BEV was suitable, was almost certain to be accused by fanboys of being anti-EV or a troll. I guess enough owners have gotten past the honeymoon stage and have experienced the real limitations that less than ideal conditions impose, so that they can look at their cars more objectively.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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