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dgpcolorado
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:17 am

drees wrote:I also don't consider it much of a "warranty" if the battery loses the 4th bar just outside of warranty, too, as so many southern California LEAFs appear to be on track to do.
And my low mileage, cool climate, mountain LEAF. I broke below 58 Ah yesterday now that the weather and battery (18ºC) have warmed up. Should drop the fourth bar in the 66 to 70 month range, so far as I can determine. (My hypothesis is that the high kW required for mountain driving heats up the battery significantly more than flatland driving.)

Nevertheless, with the first ever public charge station due to get installed in my destination city next month — paid for by our state EV registration fee — I will be able to cope with my wilting LEAF for many years to come and I remain happy with it. (You folks with L2 public charge stations all over the place don't realize how good you have it.)
Blue 2012 SV Dec 2011 to Feb 2016
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Nubo
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Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:15 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:We can never say for sure what Nissan *won't* do at some point in the future. If you have a bunch of six year old Leafs out there with range so badly impaired that all you can do is back out of the driveway and pull back in it's hard to see them not doing something. Once those cars get to the 10 year mark I wouldn't expect them to care any more.
You'd think they would have to do something based on their own self-interest. If people start seeing 5 or 6 year old practically useless LEAFs, that can only be a very bad thing for Nissan.

I continue to hope that they are working frantically to solve this. Either that or they're whistling on the deck. :?:
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

GregH
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Leaf Number: 26967
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:41 am

Back in 1999 the Production EV Drivers Coalition put together a survey of the EV drivers (mostly EV1) for a report before the California Air Resources Board. One of the survey questions dealt with range and had costs associated with each range option proportional to best understood battery costs at the time. Surprisingly 100 miles was only the second highest result.. the most popular response was 90 miles. Of course back then the EV1 was doing 60-70 miles on a charge (sound familiar?) The NiMH gen2 EV1 could do well over 100 miles.. 120 was common and some could squeeze over 140 miles out of it.
While people like to fantasize about a 150-200 mile range affordable EV I think given current technology and costs, many would be satisfied with a car that could reliably do 90-100 miles on a charge and had a good infrastructure of DCQC stations. A 36kWh Leaf with 125mi EPA range and hopefully more heat sensitive batteries could easily fit that bill... IMHO.
'17 blue Volt Premier w/ACC
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GRA
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:09 pm

GregH wrote:Back in 1999 the Production EV Drivers Coalition put together a survey of the EV drivers (mostly EV1) for a report before the California Air Resources Board. One of the survey questions dealt with range and had costs associated with each range option proportional to best understood battery costs at the time. Surprisingly 100 miles was only the second highest result.. the most popular response was 90 miles. Of course back then the EV1 was doing 60-70 miles on a charge (sound familiar?) The NiMH gen2 EV1 could do well over 100 miles.. 120 was common and some could squeeze over 140 miles out of it.
While people like to fantasize about a 150-200 mile range affordable EV I think given current technology and costs, many would be satisfied with a car that could reliably do 90-100 miles on a charge and had a good infrastructure of DCQC stations. A 36kWh Leaf with 125mi EPA range and hopefully more heat sensitive batteries could easily fit that bill... IMHO.
I think the main question is how much EPA range does it take to give people a 'reliable' 90-100 miles? I think a reliable 50-70 would be enough for most people's commutes and local use, but as I've said upthread I think that requires at least 150 EPA miles to cover the majority of climates and drivers in the U.S., my definition of 'reliable' including EoL degradation, free use of HVAC and a reserve while being driven the 'wrong' way.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

jlsoaz
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Leaf Number: 24218
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:58 pm

GregH wrote:Back in 1999 the Production EV Drivers Coalition put together a survey of the EV drivers (mostly EV1) for a report before the California Air Resources Board. One of the survey questions dealt with range and had costs associated with each range option proportional to best understood battery costs at the time. Surprisingly 100 miles was only the second highest result.. the most popular response was 90 miles. Of course back then the EV1 was doing 60-70 miles on a charge (sound familiar?) The NiMH gen2 EV1 could do well over 100 miles.. 120 was common and some could squeeze over 140 miles out of it.
While people like to fantasize about a 150-200 mile range affordable EV I think given current technology and costs, many would be satisfied with a car that could reliably do 90-100 miles on a charge and had a good infrastructure of DCQC stations. A 36kWh Leaf with 125mi EPA range and hopefully more heat sensitive batteries could easily fit that bill... IMHO.
[edited]

Would like to move on from the status quo. More than 3 years past the introduction of the Leaf, and fifteen years past the survey you reference, and we are still sitting here waiting for the major auto OEMs to offer us the option of paying them more money and allowing us something closer to the ranges many of us really need in a sub-$50k BEV. Yes, Tesla is going to finally render this discussion moot in two or three years, but why should we have to wait another two or three years?
Former lessee 2012 SL
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/ba ... hp?vid=229
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will buy 150+ mile BEV when they become less expensive on used market
opinions expressed are my own

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dgpcolorado
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Delivery Date: 15 Dec 2011
Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:10 am

GregH wrote:...A 36kWh Leaf with 125mi EPA range and hopefully more heat sensitive batteries could easily fit that bill... IMHO.
You mean the current battery isn't "heat sensitive" enough? :o

[Yes, I know that you meant "heat resistant"...]
Blue 2012 SV Dec 2011 to Feb 2016
CPO 2014 Tesla S60 Mar 2016
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BoulderLeaf
Posts: 120
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Delivery Date: 30 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 016651
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:18 pm

dgpcolorado wrote:
drees wrote:I also don't consider it much of a "warranty" if the battery loses the 4th bar just outside of warranty, too, as so many southern California LEAFs appear to be on track to do.
And my low mileage, cool climate, mountain LEAF. I broke below 58 Ah yesterday now that the weather and battery (18ºC) have warmed up. Should drop the fourth bar in the 66 to 70 month range, so far as I can determine. (My hypothesis is that the high kW required for mountain driving heats up the battery significantly more than flatland driving.)

Nevertheless, with the first ever public charge station due to get installed in my destination city next month — paid for by our state EV registration fee — I will be able to cope with my wilting LEAF for many years to come and I remain happy with it. (You folks with L2 public charge stations all over the place don't realize how good you have it.)
Can you elaborate on this new public charger? What type will it be? How did you find out abut it? Do you know of other planned chargers in the state?

Thanks!
First LEAF: Blue 2012 SL, Delivered: 11/30/2012, Traded in: 8/31/2015
First bar lost: 8/14/2015 @ 29,450 miles

Second LEAF: Gunmetal 2015 SV w/QC, Delivered: 8/31/2015

Other car: Silver 2013 Volt

All powered by 10KW PV system

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dgpcolorado
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:48 pm

BoulderLeaf wrote:Can you elaborate on this new public charger? What type will it be? How did you find out abut it? Do you know of other planned chargers in the state?

Thanks!
There are three towns over here on the far Western Slope that have received charge station grants: Montrose, Ouray, and Mountain Village. I presume that there are others around the state, but I only heard indirectly about the ones here*. All are Level 2, so far as I am aware. The one in Montrose will be a double charge station but grant terms require that one parking space be "accessible" (I think that means "handicap accessible"), so it appears that there will only be one usable space, although that remains to be seen. (This info came from the Montrose city official who did the grant application.)

* The Colorado Energy Office says that: "The Colorado Energy Office (CEO) Charge Ahead Colorado program is leading this expansion of local EV infrastructure. To date the program has provided financial assistance for the installation of over 42 charging stations across Colorado." This is the source of funds for the stations here.
Grant Application Information
Blue 2012 SV Dec 2011 to Feb 2016
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BoulderLeaf
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:58 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 016651
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Sun Apr 13, 2014 4:25 pm

dgpcolorado wrote:
BoulderLeaf wrote:Can you elaborate on this new public charger? What type will it be? How did you find out abut it? Do you know of other planned chargers in the state?

Thanks!
There are three towns over here on the far Western Slope that have received charge station grants: Montrose, Ouray, and Mountain Village. I presume that there are others around the state, but I only heard indirectly about the ones here*. All are Level 2, so far as I am aware. The one in Montrose will be a double charge station but grant terms require that one parking space be "accessible" (I think that means "handicap accessible"), so it appears that there will only be one usable space, although that remains to be seen. (This info came from the Montrose city official who did the grant application.)

* The Colorado Energy Office says that: "The Colorado Energy Office (CEO) Charge Ahead Colorado program is leading this expansion of local EV infrastructure. To date the program has provided financial assistance for the installation of over 42 charging stations across Colorado." This is the source of funds for the stations here.
Grant Application Information
Cool, thanks for the info!
First LEAF: Blue 2012 SL, Delivered: 11/30/2012, Traded in: 8/31/2015
First bar lost: 8/14/2015 @ 29,450 miles

Second LEAF: Gunmetal 2015 SV w/QC, Delivered: 8/31/2015

Other car: Silver 2013 Volt

All powered by 10KW PV system

lorenfb
Posts: 2348
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:31 am

"Yes, Tesla is going to finally render this discussion moot in two or three years, but why should we have to wait another two or three years?"

Dream on!
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

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