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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:39 am

^ Cruise control included on the S! Not that you can cruise long enough in a Leaf for your foot to get tired in the first place. So what's left? Looks like the heat pump heat system is about the only reason to go for the upgraded models. I can get fancy wheels elsewhere if I want.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
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dgpcolorado
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:09 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:^ Cruise control included on the S! Not that you can cruise long enough in a Leaf for your foot to get tired in the first place. So what's left? Looks like the heat pump heat system is about the only reason to go for the upgraded models. I can get fancy wheels elsewhere if I want.
The real advantage of cruise control is to control the speed and keep from speeding, which is easy to do in the quiet LEAF. I like to just dial in the speed limit, if I have cars behind me, or lower if I am trying to stretch mileage and have no cars behind me (no multi-lane roads here). If one is always driving in congested conditions with stoplights and the like, I can see how cruise wouldn't be much use. But I find it way easier to keep a steady speed with cruise than without.

I agree that the new features on the S model make it almost pointless to go with the SV/SL. The only significant difference seems to be the heater, which I rarely use. B mode + 6.0 kW charging + cruise is everything the old S model didn't have that I would have wanted. Nissan suggests the dealers order only 10% S models. I'd figure that they would sell at least 50% S if they don't make them hard to get. But the profit margins on the SV/SL must be much greater so that's what they will push, I suppose.
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GRA
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:09 pm

evnow wrote:
GRA wrote: I'm thinking of people living in Kansas City, Twin Cities, Detroit, Buffalo etc. and their suburbs, i.e. mainstream urban/suburban America. We have to get past the early adopter crowd in the next generation, if EVs are to prosper. And we need to do it before 2017, because who knows what will happen politically then.
No we don't need to appeal to those people to get to 5% market share.
I'm at a loss as to your reasoning on that. BEVs are sold almost exclusively in major metropolitan markets, because with their limited range and limited infrastructure, those are the places they make the most sense. Consider just the 59 Metropolitan areas with a population greater than 1 million:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_me ... ted_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most of them experience cold winters and/or hot summers. In order to get to 5%, BEVs will have to have enough range that a fair number of customers' will be comfortable with it being their _only_ car in their climate, as well as appealing to suburban owners with longer commutes who have multiple cars. Either is going to take a lot more range than they currently have.

While I think Anton Wahlman is going way overboard on any claims of 'proof' that Nissan will be introducing the car in the topic title, I do think, along with jlsoaz, that he has hit the nail on the head re what owners want for their next BEV.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:17 pm

dgpcolorado wrote: But I find it way easier to keep a steady speed with cruise than without.

I agree that the new features on the S model make it almost pointless to go with the SV/SL. The only significant difference seems to be the heater, which I rarely use. B mode + 6.0 kW charging + cruise is everything the old S model didn't have that I would have wanted. Nissan suggests the dealers order only 10% S models. I'd figure that they would sell at least 50% S if they don't make them hard to get. But the profit margins on the SV/SL must be much greater so that's what they will push, I suppose.
Agreed on CC, and B-mode is nice. But the heat pump really makes a difference to range in moderate winter climates like the Bay Area. Add that to the 'S' and double the range, and it would fit my desires better than the SV or SL. I could see getting one like that, but only if it had a liquid-cooled and heated TMS or an acceptable capacity warranty, because I won't take anything Nissan says about the battery on faith.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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dgpcolorado
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:10 am

GRA wrote:...I could see getting one like that, but only if it had a liquid-cooled and heated TMS or an acceptable capacity warranty, because I won't take anything Nissan says about the battery on faith.
Since Nissan isn't going to do that, you will need to look elsewhere; Tesla seems to be the only car that seems to meet your requirements (save for price, perhaps — that certainly is the case for me!).

As for the heater, dressing for the weather, preheating, and using the steering wheel heater works fine for me. But I don't have a spouse/kids factor to consider, as many do. Nor do I park outside in below zero weather, as some do. But the Bay Area? It doesn't get cold there!
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evnow
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:21 am

GRA wrote:Add that to the 'S' and double the range, and it would fit my desires better than the SV or SL. I could see getting one like that, but only if it had a liquid-cooled and heated TMS or an acceptable capacity warranty, because I won't take anything Nissan says about the battery on faith.
2200 posts and still waiting for "double the range". How many posts before you get your ideal EV ? ;)

ps : There is an EV with double the range and liquid cooled battery. It is called Model S. Apparently you want a Model S for $30k.
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palmermd
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:41 am

evnow wrote:
GRA wrote:Add that to the 'S' and double the range, and it would fit my desires better than the SV or SL. I could see getting one like that, but only if it had a liquid-cooled and heated TMS or an acceptable capacity warranty, because I won't take anything Nissan says about the battery on faith.
2200 posts and still waiting for "double the range". How many posts before you get your ideal EV ? ;)

ps : There is an EV with double the range and liquid cooled battery. It is called Model S. Apparently you want a Model S for $30k.
haha. good one. Who would not want a Model S for $30k. I'll be purchasing a Model E when its available...but even then I'm expecting to pay about $50k.
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ILETRIC
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:55 pm

palmermd wrote:I'll be purchasing a Model E when its available...but even then I'm expecting to pay about $50k.
Lease it and you won't!
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GRA
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:10 pm

evnow wrote:
GRA wrote:Add that to the 'S' and double the range, and it would fit my desires better than the SV or SL. I could see getting one like that, but only if it had a liquid-cooled and heated TMS or an acceptable capacity warranty, because I won't take anything Nissan says about the battery on faith.
2200 posts and still waiting for "double the range". How many posts before you get your ideal EV ? ;)

ps : There is an EV with double the range and liquid cooled battery. It is called Model S. Apparently you want a Model S for $30k.
Nope, the S is much too big for my needs, and there's no need to wait for the ideal EV, just one that at least meets my basic requirements. The 2014 LEAF S didn't; the 2015 LEAF S takes a step closer, but still isn't there.

I want what will hopefully follow the Model E (Model Y?), an AWD small CUV for no more than $35k, which is what I can afford and can see paying for in a car, although I'd prefer it to be less. I'm willing (and have) to wait for the manufacturers to build a PEV/FCEV to meet my needs - barring a huge and sustained spike in the price of gas, I'll keep my 2003 Forester until then. If it craps out in the meantime, I'd look at the A3 and coming Golf GTE Sportwagens, and even the Outlander although it's bigger and less responsive than I'd like.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Re: 135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?

Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:32 pm

dgpcolorado wrote:
GRA wrote:...I could see getting one like that, but only if it had a liquid-cooled and heated TMS or an acceptable capacity warranty, because I won't take anything Nissan says about the battery on faith.
Since Nissan isn't going to do that, you will need to look elsewhere; Tesla seems to be the only car that seems to meet your requirements (save for price, perhaps — that certainly is the case for me!).
We'll have to see what Nissan does re a warranty, but I was speaking rhetorically. Nissan has so alienated me by their lack of business ethics over the LEAF's battery, that I very much doubt I'll ever again be a customer of theirs. Pity, my 2000 was the car I most enjoyed, and my friend's 510 and another's B210 were bulletproof.
dgpcolorado wrote: As for the heater, dressing for the weather, preheating, and using the steering wheel heater works fine for me. But I don't have a spouse/kids factor to consider, as many do. Nor do I park outside in below zero weather, as some do. But the Bay Area? It doesn't get cold there!
See my previous post. As for the Bay Area not getting cold, remember what Mark Twain apparently never said: "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco." :D It's a question of how I dress and my metabolism (the only settings it has are 'max' and 'off' - while moving I generate a tremendous amount of heat, but next to nothing when I'm sitting still). I'm in shorts year round, but I know that the weather here can change very quickly as you pass from one micro-climate to the next, and feel a hell of a lot colder due to all the moisture in the air plus the wind chill. I don't know how the people in the Central Valley can stand sitting under the Tule fog for weeks on end every winter, it's cold, clammy and depressing.

So, although the temp rarely goes below freezing here, it's often uncomfortable wearing shorts and no or a light shirt while driving, and I'm unwilling to spend upwards of $30k on a car that can't keep me reasonably comfortable in whatever clothing I happen to be wearing for when I get out of the car. Since I need both range AND warmth the heat pump makes a great deal of sense here, as it will be very efficient in our climate. I have heated seats, but owing to some past frostbite in my toes and fingers my circulation is poor in those areas, so want some hot air blowing on them and my legs.

For those who experience single digit or colder winters the heat pump's value is a lot less, although it will help the range spring and fall.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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