LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

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evnow

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In this thread I'll attempt to collate all known information about LEAF generation 2. By known I'm talking about information attributed to a named Nissan executive. I'll add speculative information at the bottom.

- Just after March 2017. Infiniti EV comes earlier in 2017.
- Will have a greatly increased range. 300 kms (186 miles) mentioned as competitive with FCEV Nissan's domestic rivals are developing. Infiniti EV sedan could have greater range.
- Will be a hatchback with conventional looks sporting brand’s new V Motion plunging V-shaped front fascia and the floating roof evoked by blacked-out pillars, as seen in the redesigned Rogue crossover.
- Double the range of current Gen Leaf

Sources : http://www.autonews.com/article/20140507/OEM05/140509845/nissans-next-evs-more-mainstream-better-battery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Speculation ...
- 150 EPA miles for $35k. Based on a survey Nissan sent.
- May have multiple battery options.
- Will be available in 2016 as a MY17 vehicle.

Sources :
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=15708" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=17768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Thanks for the update. My 2011 has just over 18,000 miles (April 2011). I'm hoping that that by 2017 I will be able to update my battery to the longer range one. All I need is for my LEAF to hang on (with range) until then, and the new battery to be compatible with my 2011.
 
I seriously doubt that will ever be possible.

SilverLeaf said:
My 2011 has just over 18,000 miles (April 2011). I'm hoping that that by 2017 I will be able to update my battery to the longer range one.
 
evnow said:
...
Sources : http://www.autonews.com/article/20140507/OEM05/140509845/nissans-next-evs-more-mainstream-better-battery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...
Automotive News article would have more credibility if they hadn't included the following misleading statement:
"The Leaf came to market with an EPA-rated range of 73 miles on a full charge. Its range climbed to 84 miles in the 2014 model year, partly through such tweaks as a more efficient heating system."
The reality is there has been very little range increase since 2011.  73 increase to 84 was primarily done through eliminating 80% charge option.
With that kind of hyperbole how can you believe any of the rest of the artcle????
 
TimLee said:
With that kind of hyperbole how can you believe any of the rest of the artcle????
The hope is that they didn't make up what they wrote they were told.
 
SilverLeaf said:
Thanks for the update. My 2011 has just over 18,000 miles (April 2011). I'm hoping that that by 2017 I will be able to update my battery to the longer range one. All I need is for my LEAF to hang on (with range) until then, and the new battery to be compatible with my 2011.

I suspect a lot of owners like you badly want a longer range in spite of extra cost or lchanged characteristics of the car. I would think that it is technically straightforward to fit a second battery in the boot. If this would upset the control electronics there could be a switch to switch between the batteries. Probably be some bureaucratic obstacles but maybe not.
 
TimLee said:
evnow said:
...
Sources : http://www.autonews.com/article/20140507/OEM05/140509845/nissans-next-evs-more-mainstream-better-battery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...
Automotive News article would have more credibility if they hadn't included the following misleading statement:
"The Leaf came to market with an EPA-rated range of 73 miles on a full charge. Its range climbed to 84 miles in the 2014 model year, partly through such tweaks as a more efficient heating system."
The reality is there has been very little range increase since 2011.  73 increase to 84 was primarily done through eliminating 80% charge option.
With that kind of hyperbole how can you believe any of the rest of the artcle????

You missed a step in there. The 2011 and 2012 were rated at 73. The 2013 would have been rated at 84, but the EPA decided to split the range at 80% (66) with the range at 100% so averaged to 75. The 84 happened in 2014 when the 80% option was eliminated.

So there was some sort of change between 2012 and 2013. Was the improved range just a testing mirage - perhaps a methodology change from the EPA? Somebody here (Tony?) did a constant speed test and found no range change between 2012 and 2013. However, most people who migrated from a 2011/2012 to a later model year report the range does seem longer. We know something about the battery changed - anyone installing a new battery under the replacement program needs a special adapter harness if they have a pre-2013 LEAF. We also know the battery management software changed.

However, you are right in that the comment about the more efficient heating system is irrelevant. Yes, the 2013 and later LEAFs - at least those with SV and SL trims - have the heat pump but that didn't factor into the EPA range calculation.
 
cgaydos said:
TimLee said:
evnow said:
...
Sources : http://www.autonews.com/article/20140507/OEM05/140509845/nissans-next-evs-more-mainstream-better-battery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...
Automotive News article would have more credibility if they hadn't included the following misleading statement:
"The Leaf came to market with an EPA-rated range of 73 miles on a full charge. Its range climbed to 84 miles in the 2014 model year, partly through such tweaks as a more efficient heating system."
The reality is there has been very little range increase since 2011.  73 increase to 84 was primarily done through eliminating 80% charge option.
With that kind of hyperbole how can you believe any of the rest of the artcle????

You missed a step in there. The 2011 and 2012 were rated at 73. The 2013 would have been rated at 84, but the EPA decided to split the range at 80% (66) with the range at 100% so averaged to 75. The 84 happened in 2014 when the 80% option was eliminated.

So there was some sort of change between 2012 and 2013. Was the improved range just a testing mirage - perhaps a methodology change from the EPA? Somebody here (Tony?) did a constant speed test and found no range change between 2012 and 2013. However, most people who migrated from a 2011/2012 to a later model year report the range does seem longer. We know something about the battery changed - anyone installing a new battery under the replacement program needs a special adapter harness if they have a pre-2013 LEAF. We also know the battery management software changed.

However, you are right in that the comment about the more efficient heating system is irrelevant. Yes, the 2013 and later LEAFs - at least those with SV and SL trims - have the heat pump but that didn't factor into the EPA range calculation.
IIRR, the 2011 was tested using the 2-cycle regime, and the 2013 using the 5-cycle one. IIRC, Nissan claimed that they had made efficiency improvements in regen which boosted its range on the city cycles.
 
Based on the latest Winter survey from the Michigan Nissan Tech Center, we can also speculate that the following might also be options:

-Radiant driver footwell heat
-Electric front defroster
 
cgaydos said:
So there was some sort of change between 2012 and 2013. Was the improved range just a testing mirage - perhaps a methodology change from the EPA? Somebody here (Tony?) did a constant speed test and found no range change between 2012 and 2013. However, most people who migrated from a 2011/2012 to a later model year report the range does seem longer. We know something about the battery changed - anyone installing a new battery under the replacement program needs a special adapter harness if they have a pre-2013 LEAF. We also know the battery management software changed.
A big change in the 2013 is much improved regen. That could easily account for the range difference and wouldn't show up in Tony's constant speed test.
 
dm33 said:
A big change in the 2013 is much improved regen. That could easily account for the range difference and wouldn't show up in Tony's constant speed test.
Much improved regen? People who have owned both older and newer LEAFs have said that B mode is the equivalent of the regen in Eco in 2011/2012 LEAFs, the difference being that B mode can be used in D or Eco. But, if true, that isn't "much improved" (stronger) regen.

I thought the EPA testing regimen changed between the 2012 and 2013 model years, which would explain most of the higher EPA range for the 2013 (at 100%). IIRC the Cd also dropped a bit in the 2013, although whether that was a measurement correction or an actual reduction in drag was unclear (to me).
 
dgpcolorado said:
dm33 said:
A big change in the 2013 is much improved regen. That could easily account for the range difference and wouldn't show up in Tony's constant speed test.
Much improved regen? People who have owned both older and newer LEAFs have said that B mode is the equivalent of the regen in Eco in 2011/2012 LEAFs, the difference being that B mode can be used in D or Eco. But, if true, that isn't "much improved" (stronger) regen.

I thought the EPA testing regimen changed between the 2012 and 2013 model years, which would explain most of the higher EPA range for the 2013 (at 100%). IIRC the Cd also dropped a bit in the 2013, although whether that was a measurement correction or an actual reduction in drag was unclear (to me).

I do not remember exactly, but I believe with the new 2011 at 100% the regen was 0. For the 2015 at 100% I can still get 5-10kW regen going downhill from where I live. And after 3-4 miles even 20kW.
 
Here is a quote from a Nissan executive.
Nissan is quietly confident that it will be able to match Chevy and Tesla with a longer-range electric car of its own, Chief Planning Officer Philippe Klein said in an interview with industry trade journal Automotive News in Detroit.

He was confident that anticipated battery improvements for upcoming electric cars will largely eliminate range anxiety, and that the company is "going to be there relatively quickly."

Read the full article here.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1096334_nissan-to-have-longer-range-electric-cars-relatively-quickly-exec-says" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?
 
KJD said:
Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?

End of 2015, face-lifted 150-mile LEAF, based on current model.

End of 2017, brand new 200-mile LEAF, some other minor improvements, about 4 days before GM's first delivery of the Bolt, about 8 months before the first delivery of the Tesla Model III.

I guarantee Nissan will unveil a 150-mile LEAF before they come out with the 200-mile to compete with Bolt/III.
 
KJD said:
...Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?
Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but I'm inclined to believe that the longer range LEAF will appear in the 2016 MY later this year. If not then, surely by MY 2017 next year. That would be "relatively quickly" by my standards.
 
dgpcolorado said:
KJD said:
...Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?
Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but I'm inclined to believe that the longer range LEAF will appear in the 2016 MY later this year. If not then, surely by MY 2017 next year. That would be "relatively quickly" by my standards.

2016 model year with a sort of good battery (150 miles) is what I'm expecting from Nissan, with a 200-mile coming for the 2018 model year to compete with the other players. I don't believe any of the automakers will be able to deliver a 200-mile range EV with a 2017 model year.
 
kubel said:
I guarantee Nissan will unveil a 150-mile LEAF before they come out with the 200-mile to compete with Bolt/III.
Why would you guarantee that? Personal opinion?
 
dgpcolorado said:
KJD said:
...Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?
Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but I'm inclined to believe that the longer range LEAF will appear in the 2016 MY later this year. If not then, surely by MY 2017 next year. That would be "relatively quickly" by my standards.


If we see a new leaf in 2016 I would guess that 2016 model year could be skipped, run the 15s a bit longer. That lets them bring out the 2017 model year earlier on in 2016.

However I would guess that Nissan has less to gain from being first to market with a second gen EV and they will probably wait until they know what the competition is brining out. That being said if Tesla does the 3 like the X we could see the 3 being announced before the leaf 2 and the leaf 2 beating the 3 to market.
 
kubel said:
dgpcolorado said:
KJD said:
...Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?
Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but I'm inclined to believe that the longer range LEAF will appear in the 2016 MY later this year. If not then, surely by MY 2017 next year. That would be "relatively quickly" by my standards.

2016 model year with a sort of good battery (150 miles) is what I'm expecting from Nissan, with a 200-mile coming for the 2018 model year to compete with the other players. I don't believe any of the automakers will be able to deliver a 200-mile range EV with a 2017 model year.

FWIW, many people seemed to expect a doubling of the battery size in the 2015 model, yet we still have the same 24kWh. I personally would not be surprised if Nissan drags out the current battery until Leaf 2.0 in spring 2017 (model year 2018). Yes, the car will be long in the tooth, but what is their competition doing? Oh wait, what competition?

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if Nissan gave us a slight bump in battery size for 2016/2017, just to hold us over. It would be a mid-cycle refresh, given they said the current cycle began in 2013. I'm just not expecting much. Maybe an honest 100 EPA miles. That's a 19% increase. Not terrible. For reference, the battery in the 2016 Volt holds 15% more energy than the 2011 Volt.
 
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