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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:52 pm
by dgpcolorado
dm33 wrote:A big change in the 2013 is much improved regen. That could easily account for the range difference and wouldn't show up in Tony's constant speed test.
Much improved regen? People who have owned both older and newer LEAFs have said that B mode is the equivalent of the regen in Eco in 2011/2012 LEAFs, the difference being that B mode can be used in D or Eco. But, if true, that isn't "much improved" (stronger) regen.

I thought the EPA testing regimen changed between the 2012 and 2013 model years, which would explain most of the higher EPA range for the 2013 (at 100%). IIRC the Cd also dropped a bit in the 2013, although whether that was a measurement correction or an actual reduction in drag was unclear (to me).

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:48 pm
by camasleaf
dgpcolorado wrote:
dm33 wrote:A big change in the 2013 is much improved regen. That could easily account for the range difference and wouldn't show up in Tony's constant speed test.
Much improved regen? People who have owned both older and newer LEAFs have said that B mode is the equivalent of the regen in Eco in 2011/2012 LEAFs, the difference being that B mode can be used in D or Eco. But, if true, that isn't "much improved" (stronger) regen.

I thought the EPA testing regimen changed between the 2012 and 2013 model years, which would explain most of the higher EPA range for the 2013 (at 100%). IIRC the Cd also dropped a bit in the 2013, although whether that was a measurement correction or an actual reduction in drag was unclear (to me).
I do not remember exactly, but I believe with the new 2011 at 100% the regen was 0. For the 2015 at 100% I can still get 5-10kW regen going downhill from where I live. And after 3-4 miles even 20kW.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:41 pm
by KJD
Here is a quote from a Nissan executive.
Nissan is quietly confident that it will be able to match Chevy and Tesla with a longer-range electric car of its own, Chief Planning Officer Philippe Klein said in an interview with industry trade journal Automotive News in Detroit.

He was confident that anticipated battery improvements for upcoming electric cars will largely eliminate range anxiety, and that the company is "going to be there relatively quickly."
Read the full article here.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/109 ... -exec-says" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:47 pm
by kubel
KJD wrote:Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?
End of 2015, face-lifted 150-mile LEAF, based on current model.

End of 2017, brand new 200-mile LEAF, some other minor improvements, about 4 days before GM's first delivery of the Bolt, about 8 months before the first delivery of the Tesla Model III.

I guarantee Nissan will unveil a 150-mile LEAF before they come out with the 200-mile to compete with Bolt/III.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:48 pm
by dgpcolorado
KJD wrote:...Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?
Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but I'm inclined to believe that the longer range LEAF will appear in the 2016 MY later this year. If not then, surely by MY 2017 next year. That would be "relatively quickly" by my standards.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:55 pm
by kubel
dgpcolorado wrote:
KJD wrote:...Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?
Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but I'm inclined to believe that the longer range LEAF will appear in the 2016 MY later this year. If not then, surely by MY 2017 next year. That would be "relatively quickly" by my standards.
2016 model year with a sort of good battery (150 miles) is what I'm expecting from Nissan, with a 200-mile coming for the 2018 model year to compete with the other players. I don't believe any of the automakers will be able to deliver a 200-mile range EV with a 2017 model year.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:39 pm
by DeaneG
kubel wrote:I guarantee Nissan will unveil a 150-mile LEAF before they come out with the 200-mile to compete with Bolt/III.
Why would you guarantee that? Personal opinion?

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:50 pm
by minispeed
dgpcolorado wrote:
KJD wrote:...Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?
Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but I'm inclined to believe that the longer range LEAF will appear in the 2016 MY later this year. If not then, surely by MY 2017 next year. That would be "relatively quickly" by my standards.

If we see a new leaf in 2016 I would guess that 2016 model year could be skipped, run the 15s a bit longer. That lets them bring out the 2017 model year earlier on in 2016.

However I would guess that Nissan has less to gain from being first to market with a second gen EV and they will probably wait until they know what the competition is brining out. That being said if Tesla does the 3 like the X we could see the 3 being announced before the leaf 2 and the leaf 2 beating the 3 to market.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:32 pm
by TomT
2017 MY.
KJD wrote:Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:42 pm
by GetOffYourGas
kubel wrote:
dgpcolorado wrote:
KJD wrote:...Now the question is this, what does "relatively quickly" actually mean. Thoughts anyone?
Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but I'm inclined to believe that the longer range LEAF will appear in the 2016 MY later this year. If not then, surely by MY 2017 next year. That would be "relatively quickly" by my standards.
2016 model year with a sort of good battery (150 miles) is what I'm expecting from Nissan, with a 200-mile coming for the 2018 model year to compete with the other players. I don't believe any of the automakers will be able to deliver a 200-mile range EV with a 2017 model year.
FWIW, many people seemed to expect a doubling of the battery size in the 2015 model, yet we still have the same 24kWh. I personally would not be surprised if Nissan drags out the current battery until Leaf 2.0 in spring 2017 (model year 2018). Yes, the car will be long in the tooth, but what is their competition doing? Oh wait, what competition?

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if Nissan gave us a slight bump in battery size for 2016/2017, just to hold us over. It would be a mid-cycle refresh, given they said the current cycle began in 2013. I'm just not expecting much. Maybe an honest 100 EPA miles. That's a 19% increase. Not terrible. For reference, the battery in the 2016 Volt holds 15% more energy than the 2011 Volt.