Page 105 of 188

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:08 am
by evnow
Nissan has been hinting for sometime not to expect 60kwh long range Leaf right away. 40 kWh Leaf with 150 miles range - if priced below $30k will sell more than the pricey Bolt.

If they are going with AESC battery and deal with LG is not done, this shouldn't be surprising. AESC simply doesn't have a 60kWh battery that can be fit in Leaf.

BTW, if I were Nissan I'd be leaking info like crazy to set expectations.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:26 am
by OrientExpress
Nissan has always been about the value of their products (i.e. cheap well-trimmed cars), so I think that it is a pretty safe bet that an under $30K before incentives LEAF/Next with 150-mile range will be in the cards. $30K pricing would translate into an under $20K car after incentives.

With pricing like that, the new car will do quite well. I fully expect a 60kWh car too, but it won't be available until later.

Things that may delay the 60kWh version might be the sale of Nissan's share of AESC to the Chinese, and supplier manufacturing cost reduction efficiencies. Bringing new suppliers online can also delay things. The disappointing sales of the Bolt because of price have also raised pricing concerns that Nissan wants to avoid. I expect Nissan will want to ride the price curve down a bit from where it is now so that their 60 kWh version price delta will be minimal from the LEAF pricing structure that they currently have.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:07 am
by desiv
jhm614 wrote:Nissan is going to take some grief if they only launch with a 40kWh battery but the price is really the key - they just have to keep the price away from the Bolt. How much lower is the question... But a 150 mile car would certainly work for me.
Yeah, I don't disagree that it makes financial sense to start with the 40kWh car..
Unfortunate for me tho..
I'm waiting till I see the new Leaf till I upgrade, but 150 miles won't do it for me..
I'm doing 120 miles round trip now on my current Leaf (yep, lots of charging every day) and told my wife I'd upgrade when I can make it to work and back on a charge.

Yeah, 150 would still do that on paper..
But in the winter?
After 5 years of degradation?

I think I need closer to 200...

I can see why Nissan would want to try the waters at 40kWh tho.
IF they can sell well at that level, with a lower car price, that would be awesome for them...
The flip side of course is that the public might not see it as enough... (Even tho it really would be for many people).

desiv

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:33 am
by NavyCuda
Nissan has shown 60kWh prototype batteries, so they have the capability to make them with their existing technology.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:35 pm
by Reddy
Joe6pack wrote:It will be interesting if the new Leaf launches with a less than 60 kWh battery. Many other reputable EV sites are reporting that 60 kWh is confirmed. However, it wouldn't surprise me if a more Zoe sized battery is correct. That would put Nissan at the front of the pack of affordable mid-range EVs and thus not competing directly with the Bolt or Model 3 while severely undercutting both in price. This could be a really smart move. The Tesla fanbois will of course declare it a huge mistake, but at the end of the day, sales are what matter. And, I suspect that a new 41 kWh Leaf with a sub-$30K starting price before incentives will sell well.
Agreed! An S with 40 kWh sub-$30K (closer to $25K) could be a huge seller. Add $1K for each of these: QC, SV, SL and you've got a decent improvement over Leaf 1. Include $5K for the 60 kWh option and let the customer decide. When Nissan introduced the lower priced 2013 S, they were caught off-guard by the uptake. Nissan is not competing in the same socioeconomic level as Tesla, where people seem to gravitate to higher kWh batteries. I'm quite happy with my 2011 SL with degraded 50 mi range as a grocery-getter and I'm sure many people would chose the lower priced version over the range. Range above 250 mi and fast charging is most applicable to regional or long-distance travel. Since the "rest of us" charging network is nowhere near Tesla quality, I expect most Leaf 2 purchases to be mostly limited to similar local driving, at least until somebody (apparently not Nissan or GM) get serious and start adding 12-stall DCQCs around the country like Tesla.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:39 pm
by mtndrew1
A roughly 40kWh pack with 150 miles of range would suit my needs just fine provided the price was right. Unfortunately it looks like the new Leaf will be arriving after my lease expires so I won't be able to consider it.

I think this is a reasonable strategy to largely reuse the Leaf 1 platform with a moderately larger battery for a bargain price. As 238 mile Bolts are piling up on dealer lots and Hyundai is selling 124 mile Ioniqs as fast as they can get them out of the factory there's some evidence that the market cares about more than just absolute range numbers.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:02 pm
by rmay635703
I would rather have a Gen I Insight PHEV

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:42 pm
by OrientExpress
NavyCuda wrote:Nissan has shown 60kWh prototype batteries, so they have the capability to make them with their existing technology.
And existing cost structures too. They have to be on the next generation cost curve to be successful in their space.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:15 pm
by ElectricEddy
At least make 60kWh an option.
Extra regen is good along with more power if needed but I will be shopping elsewhere if 40 kWh is the ONLY battery available with the Leaf 2.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:44 pm
by evnow
OrientExpress wrote:Nissan has always been about the value of their products (i.e. cheap well-trimmed cars), so I think that it is a pretty safe bet that an under $30K before incentives LEAF/Next with 150-mile range will be in the cards. $30K pricing would translate into an under $20K car after incentives.
If Nissan could make a 60kWh option available for $35 (like 3) or $37.5k (like Bolt) - they would. My guess is they can't.