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Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:08 am
by DaveinOlyWA
New Article which I suspect was already posted here somewhere states someone actually test drove a 2018 and determined it to have 38.4 kwh "usable" so 153.6 miles @ a modest 4 miles/kwh. Stronger motor, DC Fast charge not determined.

So we have Bolt ~ $35ish purchase/lease depending on location.

T3 $35 purchase/ 28ish lease. plus add ons. I expect a few that will be nearly essentially making a car at this price unrealistic. I think even a "bare bones" option will be well over $40k.

or LEAF II price to be determined but what we do know; 30 kwh is going in the mid teens, so expect this to be in the mid 20's (guessing incentives will be good but not at the current crazy levels) but also expect lease prices to be just a few hundred more than purchase as has been Nissan's habit since day one.

Its the last line that allows a not so insignificant group of people in. This is a very cheap, no risk, extended test drive for people on the fence. Desiring 300 mile range is understandable but the compromise on 150 miles is pretty small.

As far as longevity, Nissan has constantly moved forward towards better cells. Its not a year by year thing. Frequently its a batch by batch thing. I have blogged a TON over how significant the miniscule jump from 24 kwh to 30 kwh has turned out to be. I had to live it to understand it because I never would have believed it. So another 10 kwh? $20ish k on a lease to purchase? This becomes the best value

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:18 am
by Stoaty
DaveinOlyWA wrote:As far as longevity, Nissan has constantly moved forward towards better cells. Its not a year by year thing. Frequently its a batch by batch thing.
Not something I have heard before. Source?

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:22 am
by OrientExpress
evnow wrote:If Nissan could make a 60kWh option available for $35 (like 3) or $37.5k (like Bolt) - they would. My guess is they can't.
I think that having a $35-37K 60kWh car is their plan, but whatever the issue is in ramping that variant, (technology, new supplier, manufacturing, etc.), it won't be available immediately.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:47 am
by evnow
NavyCuda wrote:Nissan has shown 60kWh prototype batteries, so they have the capability to make them with their existing technology.
Prototypes don't have to be warranteed, costed or anything like that. Basically AESC has a prototype 60 kWh battery that can go into a Leaf - not a production battery.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:06 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
evnow wrote:
NavyCuda wrote:Nissan has shown 60kWh prototype batteries, so they have the capability to make them with their existing technology.
Prototypes don't have to be warranteed, costed or anything like that. Basically AESC has a prototype 60 kWh battery that can go into a Leaf - not a production battery.
Plus we only assumed that pack was destined for the LEAF. It could be going to another Nissan EV initially.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:48 am
by webb14leafs
DaveinOlyWA wrote:New Article which I suspect was already posted here somewhere states someone actually test drove a 2018 and determined it to have 38.4 kwh "usable" so 153.6 miles @ a modest 4 miles/kwh. Stronger motor, DC Fast charge not determined.

So we have Bolt ~ $35ish purchase/lease depending on location.

T3 $35 purchase/ 28ish lease. plus add ons. I expect a few that will be nearly essentially making a car at this price unrealistic. I think even a "bare bones" option will be well over $40k.

or LEAF II price to be determined but what we do know; 30 kwh is going in the mid teens, so expect this to be in the mid 20's (guessing incentives will be good but not at the current crazy levels) but also expect lease prices to be just a few hundred more than purchase as has been Nissan's habit since day one.

Its the last line that allows a not so insignificant group of people in. This is a very cheap, no risk, extended test drive for people on the fence. Desiring 300 mile range is understandable but the compromise on 150 miles is pretty small.

As far as longevity, Nissan has constantly moved forward towards better cells. Its not a year by year thing. Frequently its a batch by batch thing. I have blogged a TON over how significant the miniscule jump from 24 kwh to 30 kwh has turned out to be. I had to live it to understand it because I never would have believed it. So another 10 kwh? $20ish k on a lease to purchase? This becomes the best value
This would make sense to me. A 40kwh ev for $25K has much more broad market appeal than a 60kwh car for $38K, especially with the limitations of our charging infrastructure.

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:46 am
by edatoakrun
To be clear, this is only a rumor, and perhaps includes some wishful thinking...
2018 Nissan Leaf: rumored timing, steps for U.S. rollout

...one possible scenario comes to us from a Nissan Leaf owner and advocate.

He attributed the following timetable to "well-placed sources" but asked to remain anonymous.

Nissan has taken a very conservative approach with the rollout of the next Leaf, with a global announcement and detailed specs available on September 5th in the U.S. (the 6th in Japan).

That will be accompanied by the ability to price and pre-order a car at that time...

After the reveal, between September and December a series of hands-on owner test-drive celebrations will happen across the U.S., including the ability to pre-order a car.

Here, first-generation early-adopter owners may finally get the recognition they deserve.

Deliveries will follow the original Leaf rollout, with the first cars going to California by the end of December.

Dealer inventory will be available starting in January, and those who pre-ordered will get their cars.

By March any constraints on supply will have ended, and the car will be available in sufficient quantity at dealers nationally...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/111 ... -s-rollout

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:19 am
by NeilBlanchard

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:20 am
by NeilBlanchard
DaveinOlyWA wrote:New Article which I suspect was already posted here somewhere states someone actually test drove a 2018 and determined it to have 38.4 kwh "usable" so 153.6 miles @ a modest 4 miles/kwh. Stronger motor, DC Fast charge not determined.

So we have Bolt ~ $35ish purchase/lease depending on location.

T3 $35 purchase/ 28ish lease. plus add ons. I expect a few that will be nearly essentially making a car at this price unrealistic. I think even a "bare bones" option will be well over $40k.

or LEAF II price to be determined but what we do know; 30 kwh is going in the mid teens, so expect this to be in the mid 20's (guessing incentives will be good but not at the current crazy levels) but also expect lease prices to be just a few hundred more than purchase as has been Nissan's habit since day one.

Its the last line that allows a not so insignificant group of people in. This is a very cheap, no risk, extended test drive for people on the fence. Desiring 300 mile range is understandable but the compromise on 150 miles is pretty small.

As far as longevity, Nissan has constantly moved forward towards better cells. Its not a year by year thing. Frequently its a batch by batch thing. I have blogged a TON over how significant the miniscule jump from 24 kwh to 30 kwh has turned out to be. I had to live it to understand it because I never would have believed it. So another 10 kwh? $20ish k on a lease to purchase? This becomes the best value
Can you link to this, please?

Re: LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:29 am
by edatoakrun
"NeilBlanchard"
DaveinOlyWA wrote:New Article which I suspect was already posted here somewhere...
Can you link to this, please?
Posted and discussed on this thread last week, P 104;
Reliable (?) second-hand report on gen 2...

New details on the 2018 Nissan Leaf

...Let’s sum up the best parts:

Battery capacity increases by 30 % from 30 to about 39 kWh.
Not surprising, considering that if we look at the new Eaton Nissan xStorage battery capacity, the math points to 38,4 kWh. However, Nissan has always reported the total battery capacity, but I’ve been told that from now on, only the usable battery capacity would be advertised – the same way Renault does with its electric cars. If this proves to be true, it would mean that the 38,4 kWh would be usable capacity...

Nissan didn’t reach a deal with LG Chem and keeps the AESC battery cell production going for now.
The new Nissan Leaf made in Japan will get its batteries from Smyrna, Tennessee in the USA...

More powerful motor, probably over 100 kW.

Super strong regenerative braking that completely stops the car – maybe even surpassing the BMW i3...

Available to order in early October, after the official unveil in September...
http://pushevs.com/2017/06/09/new-detai ... ssan-leaf/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfSjaZVIcQ0