ishiyakazuo
Posts: 333
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Location: Chicagoland, USA

Re: When will Nissan announce details of the next-gen Leaf

Mon May 11, 2015 3:40 pm

Are you sure those are actual weights? Also, if they change battery chemistry, each cell can hold more even with the same cell weight. It's widely assumed that the lizard batteries have a different chemistry, so maybe the chemistry change is that it holds ~10% more charge?
2012 LEAF SL in Cayenne Red
40 mile R/T commute in Chicagoland
Leaf Spy Lite (June 2015, 22513 miles): AHr = 56.86, SOH = 86%, 393.13V, Hx = 73.55%, 924 L1/L2s, min/avg/max = 4.080 4.097 4.109 (29mV)

tkdbrusco
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Re: When will Nissan announce details of the next-gen Leaf

Mon May 11, 2015 3:42 pm

Yeah. I looked up more stats. It seems like the 2014 car was 3256 for a base S and a 2015 was 3243 for a base S, so who knows?
2015 Leaf S w/QC Package. San Jose, CA
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User avatar
evnow
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Leaf Number: 303
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: When will Nissan announce details of the next-gen Leaf

Mon May 11, 2015 5:02 pm

While the speculation of a larger pack in '15 is interesting, it if somewhat OOT for this topic.

BTW, I don't think it is a larger pack. It is a different chemistry/construction.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
2nd Leaf : 5/4/2013 to 3/21/2017
Volt : 3/25/2017 to 5/25/2018
Model 3 : 5/10/2018 to ?

ydnas7
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:57 am

Re: When will Nissan announce details of the next-gen Leaf

Mon May 11, 2015 5:13 pm

ishiyakazuo wrote:Are you sure those are actual weights? Also, if they change battery chemistry, each cell can hold more even with the same cell weight. It's widely assumed that the lizard batteries have a different chemistry, so maybe the chemistry change is that it holds ~10% more charge?
Its not so much a change in chemistry, just a refinement in chemistry, particularly the electrolyte, allowing for increased SOC and longevity at the same time.

arkansasleaf
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 10:02 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Jul 2014

Re: When will Nissan announce details of the next-gen Leaf

Wed May 13, 2015 3:27 pm

ydnas7 wrote:
ishiyakazuo wrote:Are you sure those are actual weights? Also, if they change battery chemistry, each cell can hold more even with the same cell weight. It's widely assumed that the lizard batteries have a different chemistry, so maybe the chemistry change is that it holds ~10% more charge?
Its not so much a change in chemistry, just a refinement in chemistry, particularly the electrolyte, allowing for increased SOC and longevity at the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qi03QawZEk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pay close attention around 45 minutes, and you will see how improvement in additives to the lithium cell packaging have dramatic improvements on cell cycle durability......most likely this is how nissan developed the "Lizard" battery....

ydnas7
Posts: 590
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Re: When will Nissan announce details of the next-gen Leaf

Wed May 13, 2015 9:31 pm

I really think Nissan is in holding pattern with the LEAF for the next 18months.

Behind the scenes, Nissan is would be right in the heavy part of engineering LEAF II, crazy busy, but externally nothing will be noticeable for the next 18months other than similar improvements as seen before in YOY changes.

I also consider that when Nissan release details on LEAF II, they will immediate stop production of LEAF I or transition to a LEAF 'select' spec for CARB regions. It won't be a normal transition like a new Sentra or a new Altima.

tkdbrusco
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Re: When will Nissan announce details of the next-gen Leaf

Wed May 13, 2015 10:01 pm

I still think an announcement of Leaf II comes with an announcement of a revised battery option for Leaf I, either as part of a 2016 model or as an available replacement for existing cars. They will need to move tons of lease returns as well as sell the existing cars on the lots. They really can't do this well without at least hanging a better replacement battery option out there at a reasonable price. You dangle a 30kwh replacement battery option out there for $6000 and you can move those lease returns off your lots. If I know that in 3-4 years when my Leaf 1 battery has degraded to 65% of capacity that I have the ability to put a new one in that will give me 110 miles of range, I will be much more willing to either buy a used leaf, or maybe buy my lease return.
2015 Leaf S w/QC Package. San Jose, CA
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Bazooka
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:28 pm
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Re: When will Nissan announce details of the next-gen Leaf

Fri May 22, 2015 12:07 pm

Speaking as a Leaf driver and an economist, I have to say that this transition from the current generation of EVs to the next is fascinating. It also makes me quite happy that I'm not in the room helping Nissan make decisions; I've been in product design and planning meetings outside the car industry, and the phrase "blood on the walls" isn't nearly as much of an exaggeration as one might presume.

I've read the InsideEVs piece (linked to earlier in this thread) speculating/reasoning about a longer range in the Leaf I coming this year. While I would love to see that and it's obvious that Nissan needs to maintain their leadership in non-luxury EVs, I'm not convinced it will happen. Nissan would only do that by using whatever new battery pack is in the 2016 and 2017 Leafs in the 2018 Leaf II. (Before I forget: I got a call from NMAC the other day offering me a six-month lease extension during which they'd only charge me for only four payments. I got the woman to tell me when the 2016 Leaf is arriving: September 7. She didn't know anything about battery range.)

I think there are still some intriguing possibilities here:

1. They put a new 2X range pack into all 2016 Leafs with no/minimal other changes, and when the Leaf II arrives, that battery carries over to the SV and SL, and the S reverts to the current pack. Seems highly unlikely; they'd have to reduce the range on the S going from 2017 to 2018.

2. They put the 2X pack into the 2016 SV and SL, leave the S range as is (but with a price cut), and when the Leaf II arrives, the batteries stay the same. This makes sense, as it lets them have an entry level car for those who can live with the current range, and they're only developing and producing/procuring one more battery design.

3. They put a 1.5X pack into all 2016/2017 Leafs, and then in the Leaf II the S stays the same (1.5X) and the SV and SL get bumped to a 2X pack. This seems unlikely to me, as it makes the product line complicated and it requires two new packs in short order, something Nissan would likely not be thrilled with, even if they could spread the development cost over the Leaf and their electric minivan (eNV2500?).

Besides the obvious move to increasing battery range, I think Nissan is feeling pressure to give owners at least some choice in range, and option 2 above seems to me like a reasonable way to get there.

I really doubt we'll see a retrofit of the longer range pack. Nissan certainly could make that happen, but I doubt they'll want to invest the development cost plus deal with the implementation hassles. Who would do the battery swap? Your local dealer? :shock:

QueenBee
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Re: When will Nissan announce details of the next-gen Leaf

Sun May 24, 2015 10:54 am

Regarding the question of if 2015s have a significant amount of additional unusable capacity. Isn't that as easy to detect as comparing the fullly charged pack voltage and turtle killed pack voltage between 2015 and early cars? Am I correct in thinking that if they left additional capacity at the top/bottom we should see lower/higher voltages?

The post comparing SOH to original 100% GiD percent is interesting. That seems to indicate a different behavior in th gauges than we would expect. What is your HX being reported as?

dhanson865
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Re: When will Nissan announce details of the next-gen Leaf

Sun May 24, 2015 12:09 pm

Bazooka wrote:I think there are still some intriguing possibilities here:
Either you didn't read or don't believe the leak in http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19818" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which states the next battery capacity is 30kWh with a few new paint colors offered.

That's a 1.25X pack not a 1.5X or 2X. None of your scenarios match the leaked info for 2016 Leaf though if you take the worst of scenario 2 and scenario 3 and combine them that is probably close.

revised its something like: They put a 30kwh in the 2016 SV and SL, keep the 24 kWh in the 2016 S, and we don't know if the next battery will be a 2017 or 2108 change and we don't know if it will be 36 kWh or more when they bump it up again.
bruddahmanmatt wrote: 2016 LEAF trim levels will break down as follows:

S 24kWh
SV 30kWh
SL 30kWh

Available Exterior Colors:

Forged Bronze
Brilliant Silver
Glacier White
Gun Metallic
Coulis Red
Deep Blue Pearl
Super Black
Pearl White

Available Options Packages:

Charger Package is still an option on the S model and still contains the ChaDeMo port and the 6.6kW OBC. No more QC + LED Headlight Package option on the SV, that equipment appears to come as standard on the '16 SV (not confirmed but I don't see the option so I'm assuming the ChaDeMo port is standard, not sure about the LED headlights but I'd bet those are there as well). Premium Package with Bose + AVM is still an option on both the SV and the SL (really should be standard on the SL IMO).

In short, bigger battery, more colors...
Blue 2012 Leaf 195/65/15 tires, 15" Rims
Silver 2012 Leaf 16" stock wheels
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... acity_Loss
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