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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:33 pm
by EVDRIVER
TomT wrote:Sorry, but I'll take Tesla battery chemistry, TMS, and management over Nissan's any day! My five years with Leaf taught me that!
Nubo wrote:- Tesla battery chemistry is inherently less stable.

It seems to last a long time with little degradation.

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:07 pm
by LeftieBiker
By "less stable" they are referring to the likelihood of thermal runaway, not degradation rate. Think of a giant laptop...

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:33 pm
by Nubo
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Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:45 pm
by Nubo
EVDRIVER wrote:Have you ever spent any time driving a Tesla at length? I would bet all cars begin to follow this model. There is nothing that is less safe on the Tesla operationally.
Perhaps I'm fussy about controls. There are aspects of the LEAF controls that I'm not happy with, and for the same human factors type issues. Too many distractions that could have been handled simply with muscle memory instead of fiddling around.

I've only test-driven the model S. Glad you like yours.

Will other makers follow suit by aggregating controls to a touch screen? I'd be surprised if they didn't. It's ultimately cheaper. Not better, but that is my opinion.

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:47 pm
by Nubo
LeftieBiker wrote:By "less stable" they are referring to the likelihood of thermal runaway, not degradation rate. Think of a giant laptop...
Yes. I'm not saying the risk is unacceptable, but the purpose of the thread was an inquiry as to what items LEAF owners considered advantageous and that is one of mine. Not saying I wouldn't consider Model 3, but the items I listed, taken together, are what are making me lean towards LEAF2.

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:29 am
by webb14leafs
joeriv wrote:It seems to me that perhaps we focus too much on battery size and not enough on "what for?" If I lived in Canada and wanted a BEV as a primary car, I'd be hard pressed to find one that really meets all my needs. However, if I want a second car for local driving, a 30 kw Leaf will fill my needs easily (if you want to see a very long analysis on primary vs second car use, check this out: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... X16000371)).

IMHO a BEV can be the perfect second car for local driving. I don't do more than 50 miles/day so a 30 kw Leaf meets my needs for a second car. I routinely do long trips (700 miles) so my primary car is a Lexus ES350 - a great highway car. Most of the time the Lexus is under a cover.

So to the original question, Tesla or Leaf, considering my needs for a local car, I'd be hard pressed to justify $50,000 for a Tesla as a local car vs a Leaf at about $30,000 MSRP before incentives and discounts, which can lower the cost considerably.
Couldn't agree more. I'm really surprised the Leaf hasn't made more market penetration as a second car.

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:34 am
by webb14leafs
evnow wrote:
joeriv wrote:So to the original question, Tesla or Leaf, considering my needs for a local car, I'd be hard pressed to justify $50,000 for a Tesla as a local car vs a Leaf at about $30,000 MSRP before incentives and discounts, which can lower the cost considerably.
How does $30k Leaf compare to $35k Model 3 ?
Less range, less cool. Also, Tesla's batteries have historically had less degradation, but we don't know about the Model 3 yet. For your needs the extra $5K might make sense. I have a feeling that the MSRPs are misleading, though. The Leaf has routinely sold for $5K less than MSRP all over the country, while the Model 3 will likely only produce a limited number of the base model 3s in the next couple of years.

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:52 am
by SageBrush
webb14leafs wrote: while the Model 3 will likely only produce a limited number of the base model 3s in the next couple of years.
How can you possibly know that ? I have a reservation for a base model that Tesla currently estimates for ~ march delivery.

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:06 am
by webb14leafs
SageBrush wrote:
webb14leafs wrote: while the Model 3 will likely only produce a limited number of the base model 3s in the next couple of years.
How can you possibly know that ? I have a reservation for a base model that Tesla currently estimates for ~ march delivery.
Emphasis on "reservation".

Tesla has reported that they will not start manufacturing the base model until late fall 2017, and I imagine that someone without a reservation will not have access to the base model until early 2019.

I don't KNOW that, but I think it's a reasonable assumption. I think if you're trying to decide on whether to buy a Leaf 2.0 or a Model 3, having to potentially wait a full year longer for one than the other should factor into your decision.

Re: Why the LEAF Gen 2 and not the 220 miles Tesla Model 3?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:01 am
by EatsShootsandLeafs
webb14leafs wrote: I don't KNOW that, but I think it's a reasonable assumption. I think if you're trying to decide on whether to buy a Leaf 2.0 or a Model 3, having to potentially wait a full year longer for one than the other should factor into your decision.
And I'll add that anybody even pondering this thought and who has not reserved ought to do so smartly. Unless Tesla goes belly up, the $1k is easily retrievable; it is not a deposit, but just buying a place in line and can be cancelled at any time.

I put my 3 reservation in not when I had "decided" i wanted a three, but when I decided I'd strongly consider it. That bought me a spot in line. Reservations have spiked since the july unveil, too.

It occurs to me the OP might consider simply using his rav4 on winter days when a snow storm or crazy low temps are expected. Then his wife has the EV for the summer/fall/spring/warmer winter days.