2018 LEAF Drive Review

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Thanks!

Made sense to invite some folks who are active in EV social media space. You're pretty active on Facebook and you've your EV blog. Sal is also pretty active.

Hope I get to test drive one in the next few months and play w/the controls for the dash displays.
 
It was a great event but would have been so much better if they would have sat us all down after the drive event for a Q and A session. Seems like everyone came away with different and very valid questions. We were literally given no real instructions on the car and it was simply "start the car, turn right here and I will explain how to activate Pro Pilot on the way"
 
Thanks for writing this, Dave. This is a great review, and one that I can really relate to.

I'm excited for Nissan's success, but it is still not enough for me. Upstate NY is not blessed with the same infrastructure as the Puget Sound, so I really do need more range. I cannot wait for the 60kWh Leaf. I only hope that the tax credit is still around when the car arrives.
 
Good info, Dave.

...The Nissan site states 23.6 cu feet of cargo space behind the seats so no change BUT as you all know from previous blogs, I frequently use ALL 23.6 cu feet of my cargo space and the hatch area of the new LEAF IS BIGGER! which leads me to believe that LEAF Engineers spent so much energy on the new tech stuff that by the time it was time to measure the cargo space, they simply didn't have the energy to do it so just "cut and pasted the old specs...
One of the spec compilations I've read did report a few more feet of cargo space, which along with the larger door, will be quite useful.

I NEED a light colored interior for Hot Summers.

Did they give you an idea of when the tan/grey (?) interior will be available?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
It was a great event but would have been so much better if they would have sat us all down after the drive event for a Q and A session. Seems like everyone came away with different and very valid questions. We were literally given no real instructions on the car and it was simply "start the car, turn right here and I will explain how to activate Pro Pilot on the way"

I agree with Dave and am going to see if we can have a follow-up meeting or maybe a conference call to talk about the car some more with some of the technical staff.
 
edatoakrun said:
Good info, Dave.
I NEED a light colored interior for Hot Summers.

Did they give you an idea of when the tan/grey (?) interior will be available?

I completely agree and am lobbying for this. Right now, it looks like the full options list will be delayed 2 months. If you want a light colored interior at first deliveries your option will be to order an SL.
 
Orient - Can you get them on the record (or even off) regarding battery temperature management, battery degradation expectations, degradation warranty, etc. The anti-LEAF crowd is running out of genuine things to gripe about, so they keep reaching back to this 2011/2012 model year issue.
 
Because the BMS issue has been solved! yay! not.

Sealed box o' batteries does not work for many in hot climates. Please ask around. More than 3 Quick charges in a row gets you an even hotter battery, close to 100 degree F on a summer day. Plenty of threads showing capacity loss with "new" Leafs.

Head in the sand only works so well...

Please try to spin this. It's always entertaining. the ongoing threads explaining and documenting this issue are here at MNL.

Maybe you've missed them?
 
Joe6pack said:
Orient - Can you get them on the record (or even off) regarding battery temperature management, battery degradation expectations, degradation warranty, etc. The anti-LEAF crowd is running out of genuine things to gripe about, so they keep reaching back to this 2011/2012 model year issue.

It's on my list, but this issue is a no-win religious issue these days. No matter what Nissan says, the other side will just drag up 2011/12, and use the "Nissan is a Liar" arguments.

Here is a recap of what has happened in the last seven years since the introduction of the first LEAF, and some talking point to help us move on : (My appologies if this is a bit off-topic to the drive review)

1. In 2007/10 many things weren't fully understood about how the first LEAFs would operate in a variety of conditions. The Japanese EV engineering teams designed for what they believed was a 95% range of conditions, including what at the time was typical extreme hot weather situations. This is typical of a first generation product; you design to the best assumptions you have and hope you are right. By and large, they got most of it right.

2. What Nissan (or did anyone else initially) did not anticipate was the onset of extreme temperatures starting in 2010 that have since become the norm. By then the first generation battery technology was set and in manufacturing. The Nissan US EV team sincerely believed what they were saying about the 80% capacity in 10 years based on the Japenese engineering teams expertise. They did not anticipate that 2011 would begin the extraordinarily hot weather conditions that we accept today as normal.

3. The way that the affected early buyers reacted to the situation did not help things either. While Nissan in the US and Japan was trying to understand what the cause of the accelerated degradation was and fix it, they were also trying to react to the outbursts, intolerance, and impatience of the more activist owners in the US. (IMO)

4. The outcome was that it took a year and a half to engineer a solution that mitigated the cause for the issue of heat degradation in today's hotter environment. And what I mean is, it was reduced down to a level that is within a level of failure that can be further mitigated by a much more robust warranty to address those failures that were sure to happen. This was a hard problem to solve with many tradeoffs and many use cases to cover.

5. With the introduction of the improved battery technology in late 2013, we have seen that while battery degradation can still occur, it is a fraction of the number it was in the early product universes and is solved by a better warranty. It is now the exception rather than the rule for late 13 to present model cars to have battery degradation issues. It is not uncommon to see MY14 and later cars never have a warranty repair, and have approximately the same battery capacity and range as when new after tens of thousands of miles

6. It is true that the customer satisfaction solution for early owners complaints that they had a defective product resulted in a less than an optimum customer experience because of a strict interpretation of the warranty. The lawsuit brought on by disgruntled owners did not help because it gave Nissan less flexibility in addressing individual situations.

7. But things have changed at Nissan, there has been a change of management in the EV groups, and calmer heads in the owner community have made a more compelling case for revisiting how to make things right with the early customers. Today there is a much stronger warranty on the traction battery, and a program is in place to provide on a case by case basis a fresh, updated battery for early owners at a prorated price.

Will this silence those that continue to relitigate the past? Probably not, it is always easier to complain and be the archair expert, but moving forward new LEAF owners will benefit from what has happened. Today's LEAF is a quality product, and its world-wide sales are a testimony to that.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
A lot of opinion with a few facts mixed in...

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2017/09/2018-leaf.html
Thanks, Dave! Very nice write-up!

LEAF II sounds like a very nice car. I'm wondering: Was there anything that you found you liked better in the original LEAF?
 
Ah. I see. non-Leaf owners know what the what. got it.

NO TMS, no deal Nissan! I'll let others find out the hard way how this will be a problem if they want to use the Leaf like a normal car. You know, road trips in hot weather.

How anyone could trust "all's well, Nissan said so" is compelling. And I've had a great run with my 2014 Leaf! There's better out there. Leaf is relegated to 2nd car status, not a gasser replacement. That's okay for many.

Perhaps 2019 they'll figure it out? I hope sooner than later.
 
2. What Nissan (or did anyone else initially) did not anticipate was the onset of extreme temperatures starting in 2010 that have since become the norm. By then the first generation battery technology was set and in manufacturing. The Nissan US EV team sincerely believed what they were saying about the 80% capacity in 10 years based on the Japenese engineering teams expertise. They did not anticipate that 2011 would begin the extraordinarily hot weather conditions that we accept today as normal.

That's embarrassing even for a PR flack. Do you really expect people to believe that Arizona and California only got Hot in 2010? This is why people have doubts about Nissan's (and your) credibility. Hell, I could write a reasonable, convincing argument to mitigate Nissan's responsibility for the Gen 1 battery debacle, but I don't especially want to let any of you have it. ;-(

About the review: not bad, but I find the prose hard to wade through. I find what's happening with the language in general to be pretty depressing, though, so I'm sure that I'm in the minority, and it's hardly the worst-written review I've tried to read. If it were assigned to me, I would have written much less about myself, and kept the speculation to a minimum.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
Thanks for writing this, Dave. This is a great review, and one that I can really relate to.

I'm excited for Nissan's success, but it is still not enough for me. Upstate NY is not blessed with the same infrastructure as the Puget Sound, so I really do need more range. I cannot wait for the 60kWh Leaf. I only hope that the tax credit is still around when the car arrives.

I am with you and after digesting the experience a bit, its becoming clear to me that this not LEAF II...maybe LEAF PP (pro pilot) intro but I chose to designate it as LEAF I½.

I am quite shocked that there is no mention of the Humongous enhancements to Nissan Connect. It is now an app worth paying for. (as we all know, it would take A LOT for me to say that! :shock: )

So pretty obvious to me that the LEAF was not the showcase here, its Pro Pilot and I predict Pro Pilot will be a HUGE hit. Its not autonomous driving by any means but it WILL prevent a lot of accidents caused by driver fatigue or inattention. And its a fraction of the cost of Tesla AP.
 
RegGuheert said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
A lot of opinion with a few facts mixed in...

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2017/09/2018-leaf.html
Thanks, Dave! Very nice write-up!

LEAF II sounds like a very nice car. I'm wondering: Was there anything that you found you liked better in the original LEAF?

well, the ability to turn off the squeal was kinda cool. I am still not sure if that sound is even available in 2018. I watched 4 LEAFs take off from the parking structure (low glass?/ metal roof, concrete, etc. IOW, an echo chamber dream) and didn't hear a thing.
 
edatoakrun said:
Good info, Dave.

...The Nissan site states 23.6 cu feet of cargo space behind the seats so no change BUT as you all know from previous blogs, I frequently use ALL 23.6 cu feet of my cargo space and the hatch area of the new LEAF IS BIGGER! which leads me to believe that LEAF Engineers spent so much energy on the new tech stuff that by the time it was time to measure the cargo space, they simply didn't have the energy to do it so just "cut and pasted the old specs...
One of the spec compilations I've read did report a few more feet of cargo space, which along with the larger door, will be quite useful.

I NEED a light colored interior for Hot Summers.

Did they give you an idea of when the tan/grey (?) interior will be available?

Mar 2018 its not really tan, its a white, light gray and a kinda crosshatchish mix?
 
LeftieBiker said:
That's embarrassing even for a PR flack. Do you really expect people to believe that Arizona and California only got Hot in 2010? This is why people have doubts about Nissan's (and your) credibility. Hell, I could write a reasonable, convincing argument to mitigate Nissan's responsibility for the Gen 1 battery debacle, but I don't especially want to let any of you have it. ;-(

First off I am not a PR flack, but even you realize that 2010 and later have been the hottest on record the US. Weather is more extreme in every dimension, in every location, and instead of it being an edge case situation, it was a major factor in the way the batteries of the early cars behaved. It threw everyone off, and it took a lot of effort to get in front of it.

What happened back then was regrettable, but it is history and it is time to move on.

This is all I have to say on this issue in this discussion.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Mar 2018 its not really tan, its a white, light gray and a kinda crosshatchish mix?

That is the leather version of "light gray" The cloth version will not have the crosshatch center piece.
 
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