DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1491
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:22 am

The most interesting part was at the end of the article:

However, the NCM 811 battery cells from AESC arrive this year. With 32 % more volumetric energy density than the current NCM 523 battery cells, Nissan could make a new 82 kWh battery pack with the same size. Considering that a good TMS takes some space in the battery pack, a 75 kWh NCM 811 battery with liquid cooling would be reasonable…

I hope that the Nissan LEAF is going to get a completely new battery pack this year with NCM 811 battery cells and liquid cooling. Electric cars without long-lasting battery packs aren’t environmentally friendly products.
2019 SV Plus Silver 6/19 purchase 7,000 Miles
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1491
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:29 pm

So was thinking about it as I was driving around today (24F just seat and wheel heater on average 3.7-4.1 miles/kW).

In my 13 Leaf, I could do a gentle 100 miles (121 was my max drive in year 3 of the car) on a charge, which is 20% over EPA.

If I took 20% over the 216 EPA on my 2019 Leaf Plus that would be 258 miles. I personally believe the efficiency on the epa scale is accurate to one digit on the kilowatts per 100 miles, so the 215 could be more like 220 miles. That would put the 120% at 264 which is about What I was seeing at a managed highway speed, similar to the speed to achieve 100 miles in the 2013 Leaf.

So I guess I should not have been surprised at the higher range. For those with the SR+, can you achieve 20% above epa on the highway when driving carefully? So 300 miles to empty? Just curious if the same multiple applies.

Even with the 20% it looks like Niro/Kona does a better job yet efficiency and range wise.
2019 SV Plus Silver 6/19 purchase 7,000 Miles
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh

Kieran973
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2019
Location: near NY, NY

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:26 pm

Hey Doug,

Can you remind me what the fast charging curve is on your Leaf Plus when you QC at a 100 kW EA charger? I know you've mentioned somewhere else on MNL that it charges at over 70 kW for part of the time, but I can't remember any more specifics, and I've been looking for data on this elsewhere, but I haven't found any. For example, Fastned's graph of the e-Plus' charging curve in Europe is on a 50 kW charger. Anyway, I'm specifically wondering between which SOC's the Leaf Plus QC's at above 70 kW (10% - 50%?) and whether this changes at all in winter vs. summer. Any insight you can provide would be appreciated, thanks.
2019 Leaf SV (silver) with All-Weather Package

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1491
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:31 am

On the EA charger near my home, (which I have really charged with just for curiosity, as home charging is a bit cheaper). I generally peak'ed at 74-76kWr

The percentages reported are from the dash, not leafspy.
75kW to about 20% (this is about 27-28 SOC in LS)
72kW at 28%
67kW at 35%
65kW at 40%
60kW at 43%
58kW at 45%
56kW at 48%
55kW at 50% (Maybe 55-56% LS)

Beyond 50%, unless you are going cross country, your return for your minute of charging investment continues to go down. If you really wanted to maximize your ROI on EA charging (if you don't have home charging), I would run the car between 5 and 35%. It would only take 15 minutes, and you are on your way with essentially a Gen 1 Leaf range.
2019 SV Plus Silver 6/19 purchase 7,000 Miles
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh

Learjet
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:04 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Mar 2020
Leaf Number: 309454
Location: Louisiana, USA

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:36 am

Kieran973 wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:26 pm
Hey Doug,

Can you remind me what the fast charging curve is on your Leaf Plus when you QC at a 100 kW EA charger? I know you've mentioned somewhere else on MNL that it charges at over 70 kW for part of the time, but I can't remember any more specifics, and I've been looking for data on this elsewhere, but I haven't found any. For example, Fastned's graph of the e-Plus' charging curve in Europe is on a 50 kW charger. Anyway, I'm specifically wondering between which SOC's the Leaf Plus QC's at above 70 kW (10% - 50%?) and whether this changes at all in winter vs. summer. Any insight you can provide would be appreciated, thanks.
here is a video I documented the charge rate with a start of 73 kW tapering at the end. Note: I did have a little battery temp rise...despite my poor comments in the video...you can see that here:

https://youtu.be/hwQ-oprZGCE
2019 Nissan Leaf SL Plus

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1491
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:23 am

Thanks Learjet, your results were even better than mine. The question is whether its possible for the new Leaf's to achieve 80 at any point? I have only ever seen upper 70s.
2019 SV Plus Silver 6/19 purchase 7,000 Miles
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh

webeleafowners
Posts: 1067
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:18 am

I wonder what is holding Nissan back from some kind of pre-conditioning on Navigate like Tesla does. So if you set a fast charger as destination the car would pre-condition the battery for max energy transference. With my wife’s model 3 we have only supercharged at V2 Superchargers so max 150 KW. But we learned on our first couple road trips the difference between arriving at a Supercharger pre-conditioned and not. Essentially you have to navigate to a supercharger and then you get a notice that it is preconditioning. The difference was stunning. Arriving around 25-30 percent the charge went right to max for a V2 Supercharger at 150 KW. Not pre-conditioned it started around 90 ish kw. It was around plus 3-5 Celsius both times so comparable conditions.

I know Nissan has battery heaters. Could they not do something like this with software?

Heads up. I suck at this stuff so NOT AN EXPERT. :).
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LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 14625
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:01 pm

I know Nissan has battery heaters. Could they not do something like this with software?
The battery warmers on the Gen 1 and 1.5 Leaf draw 300 watts total. AFAIK they didn't make them more powerful for Gen 2, so you are talking about just a small fraction of what would be needed for the kind of preconditioning you describe.
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BrockWI
Posts: 820
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:08 pm

Just my guess, but since they can't cool the pack back down I am guessing they would rather it be cold then hot.
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14687
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:21 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:31 am
On the EA charger near my home, (which I have really charged with just for curiosity, as home charging is a bit cheaper). I generally peak'ed at 74-76kWr

The percentages reported are from the dash, not leafspy.
75kW to about 20% (this is about 27-28 SOC in LS)
72kW at 28%
67kW at 35%
65kW at 40%
60kW at 43%
58kW at 45%
56kW at 48%
55kW at 50% (Maybe 55-56% LS)

Beyond 50%, unless you are going cross country, your return for your minute of charging investment continues to go down. If you really wanted to maximize your ROI on EA charging (if you don't have home charging), I would run the car between 5 and 35%. It would only take 15 minutes, and you are on your way with essentially a Gen 1 Leaf range.
Your ramp down is EXTREME!

I don't have time to look at my logs but I didn't see a drop from 200 amps until SOC was around 45-50%

Another thing; your statement you saw 75 KW at 20% SOC needs to be verified. AFAIK, EA max'es at 200 amps which means no more than 72-73 KW at that low a voltage.


On another note; someone claimed that only 5% of EA locations Chademo's charge over 125 amps ( 50 KW in layman's terms)

Have you seen a station that did not charge faster than 50 KW on your Plus anywhere?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 7059.6 mi, 95.35% SOH
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