2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

[OrientExpress]

Yes, the real achilles heel for BEVs is the refuel(recharge) time. Even at a high volume gas station like a Costco that might have 10 cars in queue for gas, the wait isn’t much longer than 20 minutes. And for BEVs the added insult is that they can’t even get a “full” charge in 30 minutes at a DCFC station.

I don’t really see a solution on the horizon to improve this situation either.

[WetEV]

Every BEV, from Tesla to Nissan suffers from multiple disadvantages when it comes to long distance travel.

Yes.

And they are serious enough that these shortcomings will hinder BEVs gaining more than 2-3% of the world-wide fleet any time soon.

I disagree. Most driving is local, not long distance. While some do enough long distance driving not to want a BEV, and more might want that capability even if they never use it, a lot more than 3% of cars are viewed by their owners as local/city/MetroArea/what_ever and range beyond that local number isn't useful, needed or even wanted if it costs more money.

How many hours a day can you stand to sit in a car? 8 hours with a lunch break? Then 300 mile range and half hour recharge would work for you: if there was infrastructure. Which there mostly isn't.

Every EV today isn't general case road trip capable. If you disagree, I'll give you a route to travel, and you tell us how to do it.

[OrientExpress]

Yes, those of us that have been driving BEVs for years all know that urban driving is the sweet spot for BEVs, but that isn’t where the criticism is coming from.

Long distance travel, no matter how small of a percentage an activity, is how BEVs are judged by the great unwashed 98% of intenders to BEVs.

When we hear Tesla owners crow about their cars superiority it’s all about long distance travel even though it is only marginally better than the LEAFs.

When an ICE intender considers a BEV, for them it’s all about range and where to charge at. It’s an issue that can’t be discounted, and at this point is a detriment to mainstream adoption.

[lorenfb]

Yes, those of us that have been driving BEVs for years all know that urban driving is the sweet spot for BEVs, but that isn’t where the criticism is coming from.

Long distance travel, no matter how small of a percentage an activity, is how BEVs are judged by the great unwashed 98% of intenders to BEVs.

When we hear Tesla owners crow about their cars superiority it’s all about long distance travel even though it is only marginally better than the LEAFs.

When an ICE intender considers a BEV, for them it’s all about range and where to charge at. It’s an issue that can’t be discounted, and at this point is a detriment to mainstream adoption.

Yes, it's as simple as that!

[Titanium48]

Most driving is local, not long distance. While some do enough long distance driving not to want a BEV, and more might want that capability even if they never use it, a lot more than 3% of cars are viewed by their owners as local/city/MetroArea/what_ever and range beyond that local number isn't useful, needed or even wanted if it costs more money.

How many hours a day can you stand to sit in a car? 8 hours with a lunch break? Then 300 mile range and half hour recharge would work for you: if there was infrastructure. Which there mostly isn't.

Every EV today isn't general case road trip capable. If you disagree, I'll give you a route to travel, and you tell us how to do it.

I'd agree with this. There is approximately 1 car for everyone with a driver's license in North America, which means a lot of people own or jointly own multiple vehicles, and in many cases at least one of them is rarely or never used outside of the local urban area. That's probably 20-30% of all vehicles, not 2-3%.

I also agree about the infrastructure problem, especially if BEVs were to become a significant fraction of highway traffic. My road trips take me through relatively isolated small towns where there are 40 gas pumps near the highway and most of them are occupied during peak hours. Extending the refuelling time from 3-5 minutes to 30 minutes means a lot of chargers to find space for, in addition to the question of whether the electrical infrastructure in a town of 5000 permanent residents could handle tens of megawatts of EV charging.

[johnlocke]

Most driving is local, not long distance. While some do enough long distance driving not to want a BEV, and more might want that capability even if they never use it, a lot more than 3% of cars are viewed by their owners as local/city/MetroArea/what_ever and range beyond that local number isn't useful, needed or even wanted if it costs more money.

How many hours a day can you stand to sit in a car? 8 hours with a lunch break? Then 300 mile range and half hour recharge would work for you: if there was infrastructure. Which there mostly isn't.

Every EV today isn't general case road trip capable. If you disagree, I'll give you a route to travel, and you tell us how to do it.

I'd agree with this. There is approximately 1 car for everyone with a driver's license in North America, which means a lot of people own or jointly own multiple vehicles, and in many cases at least one of them is rarely or never used outside of the local urban area. That's probably 20-30% of all vehicles, not 2-3%.

I also agree about the infrastructure problem, especially if BEVs were to become a significant fraction of highway traffic. My road trips take me through relatively isolated small towns where there are 40 gas pumps near the highway and most of them are occupied during peak hours. Extending the refuelling time from 3-5 minutes to 30 minutes means a lot of chargers to find space for, in addition to the question of whether the electrical infrastructure in a town of 5000 permanent residents could handle tens of megawatts of EV charging.

The real problem is a lack of level 2 charging for those renting apartments. Far too many rent as opposed to own and they can't charge at home. If you can charge at home, owning an EV is a no-brainer. But if you live in the city, park on the street, or use the apartment's parking space then you need Level 3 fast charging preferably near restaurants and shopping. If you can charge the car while shopping, eating, or getting a manicure, it's all good.

[DougWantsALeaf]

Twin motor Leaf on its way?

https://youtu.be/lSxhR27fr8w

[DaveinOlyWA]

80MPH....I wouldn't drive my ICE that fast as the wheels would fall off.

Here in Chicago, the freeways are 55mph. You can do 65-70 in places, but usually traffic makes you go much slower.

Ha! In the South, West and Flyover states, Interstate speeds are rarely below 75.

Statistics show that most will drive in "Doug-like" conditions with a minority (just under a 3rd) will enjoy the freedoms of an "OE-like" existence. FYI; The OE's are shrinking daily.

[OrientExpress]

The same can be said for how many miles of range people actually drive in a sitting. But the reality is that these conditions are what the bar is set at, and need to be met.

[Oilpan4]

The real problem is a lack of level 2 charging for those renting apartments. Far too many rent as opposed to own and they can't charge at home. If you can charge at home, owning an EV is a no-brainer. But if you live in the city, park on the street, or use the apartment's parking space then you need Level 3 fast charging preferably near restaurants and shopping. If you can charge the car while shopping, eating, or getting a manicure, it's all good.

My rentals have L2 charging. It's just L2. Put a L14-30 in an easily accessible area in an RV/camper box. That how I charge my leaf when pulling my trailer and working on the rentals.