LeftieBiker
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Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:40 pm

I'm definitely not an aggressive driver. The problem with using ePedal all of the time is that, unless you only drive inside a city, you are wasting kinetic energy that would normally increase efficiency by coasting (regen is at best about 40% effective in recovering energy). It's a bit like driving in 3rd gear on the highway, albeit without the extra engine speed. There are obviously a few people like you who prefer to use ePedal all of the time, but this "advantage" doesn't appeal to many more people. ePedal is great for stop & go driving (although I don't usually use it unless I'm tired) but I just don't see the appeal in using it on secondary roads and highways.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14108
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:55 pm

E Pedal is a tool just as any other drive option. E Pedal provides the full range of power and regen. The other modes do not. Losing a lot of kinetic energy needlessly only means you let off the accelerator too much. Like any tool, if used properly it will benefit you and provide the additional margin of safety. The fact that brake lights automatically come on in E Pedal is a plus that most seem to want to neutralize.

Its all really preference. E Pedal is no more right or wrong than any other mode. They are there to provide choice. Right now we have EVers who have to let off the accelerator and squeeze paddles. Too much work for me.

Having to transfer my foot to the brake pedal frequently also too much work for me but what is weird; even after months of exclusive E Pedal, one does lose the natural reaction to hit the brakes if something suddenly pops up.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
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Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:59 pm

The fact that brake lights automatically come on in E Pedal is a plus that most seem to want to neutralize.
Translation...?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14108
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
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Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:36 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
The fact that brake lights automatically come on in E Pedal is a plus that most seem to want to neutralize.
Translation...?
Brake lights come on when a certain level of deceleration is achieved and stays on until you apply power to accelerate. In B mode, brake lights only come on when you have your foot on the brakes. Some people consider this to be a complete non issue and I find that very strange.

I blogged about why everyone should use E Pedal all the time and got a lot of flak over it including things like "E Pedal uses too much braking"

"I don't like the feeling of driving underwater" "I can drive much more efficiently in X Mode" and so on.

So its all about personal preference really. You can drive just as efficiently in any mode but some modes require a lot more work and concentration. I am lazy and E Pedal is quite frankly the easiest mode by quite a large margin.

But my detractors refused to accept that the primary reason for them was personal claiming that it was easier to be more efficient in their mode. They made similar claims with Eco mode. FYI; no one had a comeback when I pointed out the higher GOM in Eco ;)

So to be fair (and have quantifiable data) I said "OK. we shall find out which is more efficient" So I started testing B mode instead of just running 100% E Pedal. Now I had already tested the regen levels in various modes and E Pedal is the clear winner by a 50% margin.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/1 ... -mode.html

And...

One thing I discovered that you can check out as its very repeatable is the awkward transition from regen to friction braking in E Pedal when braking manually.

Since I got my LEAF, it has been my personal goal to go one entire month without touching the brake pedal while driving. As hard as I have tried, the best I could do so far is the 24th which I have actually hit twice. Most of the time its closer to the 15th. I guess this is why I hadn't noticed this before recently.

But I was zipping along the road one day with someone who was turning right in front of me and after completing half the turn, decided to go straight instead...rather slowly. Since maintaining speed is what I try to do as much as possible, I had timed their turn so I could hit the intersection just after they had cleared. Well since they didn't clear, this required me to slow down and E Pedal didn't have enough room to slow me sufficiently with a 40 mph differential (speed limit 50) so I slowly applied friction braking and when I did, I felt a release (of regen I assume) before the braking took over.

This reminded me of the feeling I got in my 2011 when going over raised railroad tracks in the rain.

I was able to repeat the feeling several times and found it was more noticeable when you were easing on the brakes "oldstyle" to maximize regen and yeah, E Pedal was already max regen so the easing was in vain really.

But anyway, getting sidetracked. E Pedal is simply an easier way to drive. Its great in stop and go traffic. Not having to hold your foot on the brakes while stopped is a Godsend! but some people simply don't want to get accustomed to it. I find it strange. I had 2 different people try it and they FREAK OUT over the lack of creep. I was quite shocked at their shocked reaction...

But its all about what you know. Some people are comfortable with what they are doing I guess.

As far as the testing of modes; that is still ongoing but prelim results are pretty much the same. You can drive efficiently in any mode but it takes a lot more concentration and yeah, Eco does feel sluggish. I took it off and the zippiness in even moderate maneuvers is simply more than I want to deal with full time.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
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Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:42 pm

So to be fair (and have quantifiable data) I said "OK. we shall find out which is more efficient" So I started testing B mode instead of just running 100% E Pedal. Now I had already tested the regen levels in various modes and E Pedal is the clear winner by a 50% margin.
So you went into your "test" to prove that ePedal is more efficient, and, amazingly, "proved" just that. OK... Anyway, I was just asking what that quote meant. The answer seems to be that people are stupidly discounting the value of having the brake lights come on in ePedal mode. You seem to have other issues, but let's stick with that one. Yes, it is handy, but the reason you got slammed wasn't that you noted this. You got slammed because you were loudly proclaiming that the lack of Regen-activated brake lights in other EVs and modes was an urgent safety issue - apparently because you either hadn't thought about all the cars and trucks with manual transmissions on the road that do essentially the same thing: slow the car with no brake lights, or because you didn't know that people drive standard shift vehicles using lower gears to slow them in low speed driving. It isn't that anyone really disagrees that the brake lights are handy. It's more that your bombastic prose about safety seemed both irritating and factually inaccurate.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

kosjet
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 317089
Location: Delaware

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:53 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I'm definitely not an aggressive driver. The problem with using ePedal all of the time is that, unless you only drive inside a city, you are wasting kinetic energy that would normally increase efficiency by coasting (regen is at best about 40% effective in recovering energy). It's a bit like driving in 3rd gear on the highway, albeit without the extra engine speed. There are obviously a few people like you who prefer to use ePedal all of the time, but this "advantage" doesn't appeal to many more people. ePedal is great for stop & go driving (although I don't usually use it unless I'm tired) but I just don't see the appeal in using it on secondary roads and highways.
I use ePedal because I drive 100% in the city during my commute. Even if I didn't, it still depends on the individual user. They may be willing to sacrifice the efficiency for the convenience. Depending on their exact driving situation, the actual total efficiency difference may not be that bad with the benefit of not having to continually flip the ePedal button on and off. I love driving manuals, but the vast majority of other drivers disagree because they enjoy the convenience. What is the percentage of manual transmission cars being sold now? 10%? 15%?
2018 Leaf SL w/Tech delivered 9/29/2018

LeftieBiker
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Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:31 pm

Since you do 100% city driving, then it makes perfect sense for you to use ePedal all of the time. This little argument could have been avoided had you noted that. Most people drive on several different types of roads.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14108
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:47 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
So to be fair (and have quantifiable data) I said "OK. we shall find out which is more efficient" So I started testing B mode instead of just running 100% E Pedal. Now I had already tested the regen levels in various modes and E Pedal is the clear winner by a 50% margin.
So you went into your "test" to prove that ePedal is more efficient, and, amazingly, "proved" just that. OK... Anyway, I was just asking what that quote meant. The answer seems to be that people are stupidly discounting the value of having the brake lights come on in ePedal mode. You seem to have other issues, but let's stick with that one. Yes, it is handy, but the reason you got slammed wasn't that you noted this. You got slammed because you were loudly proclaiming that the lack of Regen-activated brake lights in other EVs and modes was an urgent safety issue - apparently because you either hadn't thought about all the cars and trucks with manual transmissions on the road that do essentially the same thing: slow the car with no brake lights, or because you didn't know that people drive standard shift vehicles using lower gears to slow them in low speed driving. It isn't that anyone really disagrees that the brake lights are handy. It's more that your bombastic prose about safety seemed both irritating and factually inaccurate.
My test ONLY proved that E Pedal has a higher more aggressive level of regen which obviously means it can access the full capabilities of the car. Nothing more. I also stated that any mode can be driven just as efficiently but E Pedal is simply the easiest mode to accomplish higher results.

As far as brake lights? You can continue to provide the manual tranny argument as if it was still a common option or come to the 21st century.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
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Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:19 pm

Arguing with bloggers is like trying to shovel water. Believe what you like about the dangers of not having brake lights that are constantly going on and off in normal driving. I'll just hope I don't have to drive behind someone using ePedal.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

HerdingElectrons
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Re: Love and Hate about our new Leaf 2018

Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:04 am

LeftieBiker wrote:A standard shift ICEV will also decelerate instantly, unless it's in the highest gear at low speeds.
Please consider that a manual transmission hasn't been the standard for over 20+ years & literally over 90% of cars on the road no longer use one so factoring that into a discussion much less a debate is a lost cause.

It may have been the default configuration & an easy "excuse" to up charge a vehicle buyer to pay more but take a look at how many & what kind of vehicles are even able to be purchased with a manual transmission in the current US market.

p.s. Anecdotally have you read the numerous news stories about foilled vehicle theft or car jacking fails due to the criminal inability to drive a manual transmission vehicle?
2018 SL Pearl White 4.2/3.7 Warm/Cold weather

09/2018 @ 1,000 miles: AHr= 114.52 / SOH= 99.20 / HX= 099.70%
04/2019 @ 10,500 miles: Ahr= 111.45 / SOH= 96.54 / HX= 113.82%
07/2019 @ 14,200 miles: Ahr= 110.52 / SOH= 95.74 / HX= 111.12%

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