DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15050
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Requesting Hx values for all 40/62 kwh LEAFers

Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:22 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:46 am
I am not convinced keeping the car in the 30-70% zone is best for keeping the SOH high. Please keep sending updates. If it doesn't in the 94's, I have not idea.

I wonder if in 2020, they updated the algorithm to just take the full buffer at the 6 month mark.

I found the build date sheet in my new 2019 S+ yesterday hidden away. September 26th, so I should be due for its next rebalance in 9 days. Let's see what happens.
I am shocked we continuously revisit this myth. Realize that its a battle between the established scientific community verses a single "seemingly" outlier.

The level we "should" be charging to follows ONE simple rule; Charge to the level that covers your needs.

Be it range plus heat plus a buffer; WHATEVER!

What kills us is so many people charging to full because that is all Nissan provides us.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2083
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Requesting Hx values for all 40/62 kwh LEAFers

Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:28 am

Good point. I would wish we could draw a line between our charging "discipline" and our battery SOH over time.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15050
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Requesting Hx values for all 40/62 kwh LEAFers

Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:41 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:28 am
Good point. I would wish we could draw a line between our charging "discipline" and our battery SOH over time.
Funny you should mention that; I am contemplating charting my SOC but other than manually opening each LS log file and recording it, I don't have any easy way of doing that. It would appear to be just another data point I should have collected.

I have been very good at not going too high having only a few times over 70% and 3 full (or near) full charges but the lower end I have not been as diligent.

I began to realize I am not looking at SOC but range (old habits die hard) and still have that overwhelming sense of complacency when realizing I have more than a "few miles" of buffer. So my charge ups were mostly due to convenience and not SOC concerns which means I would spend more than 24 hours below 20% simply because that was still more than enough to cover my daily needs.

I am in SOC rehab working my issues and have made it a goal to not stray below 25% unless on a road trip.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2083
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Requesting Hx values for all 40/62 kwh LEAFers

Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:40 am

From a Dash SOC perspective, I did the same with the SV+, as even at 20%, I would have 60ish miles, which was 80% on the 2013 Leaf at the time we traded it, so for experienced Leaf drivers...far from any range anxiety.

I have been trying to keep the car between 30ish-85%. Because I charge at night on the timer, I let it run for 4 1/2 hours which usually puts be a little bit above the 80% mark. We don't drive much these days, so its sometimes a week or two between charges. I doubt it will slow are SoH decline to the low 90s, given the data on this board.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15050
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Requesting Hx values for all 40/62 kwh LEAFers

Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:17 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:40 am
From a Dash SOC perspective, I did the same with the SV+, as even at 20%, I would have 60ish miles, which was 80% on the 2013 Leaf at the time we traded it, so for experienced Leaf drivers...far from any range anxiety.

I have been trying to keep the car between 30ish-85%. Because I charge at night on the timer, I let it run for 4 1/2 hours which usually puts be a little bit above the 80% mark. We don't drive much these days, so its sometimes a week or two between charges. I doubt it will slow are SoH decline to the low 90s, given the data on this board.
Shorten your timer and charge more often. We "should" charge daily but I don't either.

I have timer set to start charge at 4 am. I get up for work at 5:40 so sometimes I unplug then or sometimes its not till 7 when I leave. Its all depending on where the SOC was when parked for the night. So at beginning of week, I usually charge first two days of the week, first day unplugging at 7 then unplugging at 5:40 the next day and that covers my 4 days.

On my 3 days off during Winter I frequently will plug in one day for 2-3 hours. Summer is a completely different story with a lot more driving so charging is not really definable.

Eventually I will likely set it up to charge every day for at least an hour or so. In Winter will probably skip a day or two per week but Summer should be fairly easy to maintain a daily regimen.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2083
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Requesting Hx values for all 40/62 kwh LEAFers

Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:11 pm

Do batteries suffer atrophy if charge cycles are spread out too far?
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15050
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Requesting Hx values for all 40/62 kwh LEAFers

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:59 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:11 pm
Do batteries suffer atrophy if charge cycles are spread out too far?
You aren't looking at it the right way.

Suppose you charge every 3 days to 100% using 25% per day and recharging when it drops to 25%. Realizing that an SOC of around 50% is best you are only around that SOC once every 3 days. So you are much better off charging from 37.5% to 62.5% daily which maximizes your time in the "optimal" zone.

Another thing you should look at is charge cycle graphs at Battery U or some place similar. The best longevity comes with higher counts of shallow cycles. IOW you will fare better charging the middle 30% of your pack daily over charging the middle 60% of your pack every other day. In fact, the smaller the charges, the better the results.

Now this sounds fine but doing this on a 24 kwh pack would be literally insane. 30% isn't enough. If you are lucky enough and have the right commute length and charging at work, maybe but for the rest of us? No way.

But now you have well over 200 miles of range at your disposal. How you use it is up to you. Now, if I thought there was some sort of hurdle that needed to be surmounted when charging daily then we would have a question of benefit verses the compromise of all that extra work. But we don't so its a tiny bit of extra effort for what could very well be a significant amount of upside.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Requesting Hx values for all 40/62 kwh LEAFers

Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:44 pm

Do batteries suffer atrophy if charge cycles are spread out too far?
You aren't looking at it the right way.
I believe that Doug is asking if there is something like the surface charge you can get on lead-acid plates that occurs with lithium packs. As I understand it, nothing that detrimental. There may be a little temporary capacity loss that returns when the pack gets 'exercised' by fast charging or driving, but as long as the SOC is in the Sweet Zone there is no harm done.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2083
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Requesting Hx values for all 40/62 kwh LEAFers

Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:13 am

Dave, Leftie,

Thank you. That answered it.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15050
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Requesting Hx values for all 40/62 kwh LEAFers

Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:22 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:44 pm
Do batteries suffer atrophy if charge cycles are spread out too far?
You aren't looking at it the right way.
I believe that Doug is asking if there is something like the surface charge you can get on lead-acid plates that occurs with lithium packs. As I understand it, nothing that detrimental. There may be a little temporary capacity loss that returns when the pack gets 'exercised' by fast charging or driving, but as long as the SOC is in the Sweet Zone there is no harm done.
I have to agree. People with very large numbers of DC's and miles and good battery health do so mostly because that much driving forces one to be in the middle zone frequently because

1) Charging to full simply takes too long so its usually done once a day at home overnight.

2) Driving to too low an SOC is risky if not in an area with an abundance of charging options.

This brings up an interesting question of how far can one's commute be and still have a good chance at very good battery longevity?

Blog to follow
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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