dborn
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Newbie question on 62KW battery warmer

Wed May 22, 2019 12:43 pm

Hi all,
New member from Canada here. I have a 2019 Leaf SV Plus on order, scheduled to be received in about 3 months. I am reading up as much as I can on the Leaf before I get it as it will be my first EV (but on my second non-plugin hybrid car in the last 11 years).

I downloaded a copy of the US 2019 Leaf Owner's manual and I'm going though this 600+ page document. One information from Nissan that strikes me as strange is the following differences between the battery warmers of the 40KWh and 62KWh models:

40KWh: "The Li-ion battery warmer does not operate if the available Li-ion battery charge is less than approximately 15% and the charger is not connected to the vehicle. To help prevent the Li-ion battery from freezing, do not leave the vehicle in an environment if temperatures may go below -1°F (-17°C) unless the vehicle is connected to a charger."

62KWh: "The Li-ion battery warmer does not operate if the normal charger is not connected to the vehicle. To help prevent the Li-ion battery from freezing, do not leave the vehicle in an environment if temperatures may go below -4°F (-20°C) unless the vehicle is connected to a charger."

So, if I read this right, the 40KWh battery will power the battery warmer even if the charger is not connected, as long as the battery charge isn't too low but the bigger 62KWh battery will not power the battery warmer unless the charger is connected? The 62KWh seems to be able to take colder temps (-20C battery with -24C air) than the 40KWh (-17C) but here in Montreal, Canada I am more worried about cold winter days than hot summer days. I will park the car in the heated adjoining garage for charging and to keep it warm at night but parking at the train station where there are no available chargers could require careful planning on particularly cold winter days.

Anybody know anything about this potential issue for colder climate owners or is this just a mistake in the owner's manual? I realize that probably no one has gone through cold winters yet with the 62KWh car...

Thanks for the valuable info found on this forum,
Daniel

LeftieBiker
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Re: Newbie question on 62KW battery warmer

Wed May 22, 2019 4:06 pm

Let's hope that it is a mistake. I can see the 62kwh pack taking longer to cool to near -18C, but I would NOT want to rely on that. I suggest that ePlus owners in cold climates make sure they have at least an L-1 EVSE connected at home. As for parking away from home, it usually takes a couple of frigid days for even a 24kwh pack to get cold enough to activate the battery heater. Leaving the car at a train station for a week in January might indeed be a problem. I wonder if the battery warmer comes on if the climate control is activated remotely...
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dborn
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed May 22, 2019 12:16 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2019

Re: Newbie question on 62KW battery warmer

Thu May 23, 2019 6:01 am

Thanks LeftieBiker for your reply. This is key information that I was missing. I didn't realize it would take that much time for the battery to get cold enough for the battery warmer to be needed. I thought that parking the car for about 12 hours in -25C or colder weather could be a problem. (the coldest it's been here, ever, in the last 5 years is -27C. On average, less that 1 week under -20C during the winter)

So if I understand correctly, if the car is parked in my +10C garage all night (possibly being charged so being warmed up even more) and then I drive to the train station only for the day while I commute to downtown and back (so being parked in the cold between 6am and 6pm), I shouldn't have any trouble making my way back home (and back into the heated garage once more for the night).

Also, I am reading different informations that are probably making me come to incorrect conclusions but, I've read conflicting reports that the 62KWh Leaf will or will not have cold air cooling for the battery while quick charging (supplied from the climate control)... The Owner's manual also contains this information: "The automatic climate control automatically turns on when the Li-ion battery warmer uses electrical power from the Li-ion battery. This is not a malfunction. When the Li-ion battery warmer operates, the temperature inside the vehicle may be warmed up". Does that imply that the climate control IS the actual battery warmer for the 62KWh pack? That could certainly explain why it would be impossible to warm up the battery without being plugged in to the charger...?

Thanks,
Daniel

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jlv
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Re: Newbie question on 62KW battery warmer

Thu May 23, 2019 6:11 am

dborn wrote:Nissan manual: ... and the charger is not connected to the vehicle.
Can someone tell Nissan it's called an EVSE?
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powersurge
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Re: Newbie question on 62KW battery warmer

Thu May 23, 2019 6:35 am

jlv wrote:
dborn wrote:Nissan manual: ... and the charger is not connected to the vehicle.
Can someone tell Nissan it's called an EVSE?
Let's stop arguing term "correctness".... You can call it whatever you want, but when you plug in the car to charge, it is perfectly appropriate to call it a "Charger"..

rogersleaf
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Re: Newbie question on 62KW battery warmer

Thu May 23, 2019 6:46 am

dborn wrote:Does that imply that the climate control IS the actual battery warmer for the 62KWh pack? That could certainly explain why it would be impossible to warm up the battery without being plugged in to the charger...?

Thanks,
Daniel
I interpret this as yes. Any constant energy draw on the battery (such as driving, running a resistance heater, etc...) will have a warming effect on the battery. Interesting they use this approach, tends to imply the dedicated battery heaters can’t adequately warm the increased battery mass. Also explains why pre-warming my previous 24KWh leaf had such a dramatic effect on winter range.
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver - returned 1/2017 at end of lease.
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dborn
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Re: Newbie question on 62KW battery warmer

Thu May 23, 2019 10:17 am

Perhaps also needing all the extra space they could find in the battery compartment to fit all those new cells, they could have done away with the warmers altogether and go for a more "external" source of cool or heat?
(I know that Nissan officials have denied the reports of the climate control cooling, at least that's what I remember reading on the subject).

rogersleaf
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Re: Newbie question on 62KW battery warmer

Thu May 23, 2019 11:47 am

dborn wrote:Perhaps also needing all the extra space they could find in the battery compartment to fit all those new cells, they could have done away with the warmers altogether and go for a more "external" source of cool or heat?
(I know that Nissan officials have denied the reports of the climate control cooling, at least that's what I remember reading on the subject).
That is a possibility. Also remember that the battery heaters in the LEAF are intended to prevent the cells from freezing, and not intended to keep the battery in an optimum performance temperature range. Had I intended to use the LEAF for extended expressway driving with repeated DCFC sessions, would much prefer the set up in the Chevy Bolt. The bonus is better battery warming using the liquid loop. In my intended usage, liquid cooling & heating is likely a secondary concern, superior comfort and options of the LEAF took priority.
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver - returned 1/2017 at end of lease.
2019 SL - White - w/Tech Package

LeftieBiker
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Re: Newbie question on 62KW battery warmer

Thu May 23, 2019 1:00 pm

So if I understand correctly, if the car is parked in my +10C garage all night (possibly being charged so being warmed up even more) and then I drive to the train station only for the day while I commute to downtown and back (so being parked in the cold between 6am and 6pm), I shouldn't have any trouble making my way back home (and back into the heated garage once more for the night).
That is correct. If the car were kept outside at home, then over a frigid snap you would eventually have to worry about the battery temp, but in the above scenario it should be fine. As for the climate control providing the battery heating just by drawing power, I guess it's possible but it's a terribly inefficient way to do it. The battery warmers on the 24kwh Leaf use about 300 watts, while the PTC heater uses about 3000-5000 watts...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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