newbie range questions

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stellaluna

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2021
Messages
9
Location
Portland, OR, US
So I'm super super new to this, picked up a used 2013 Leaf S with 36k miles and 11 bars of battery life on the dash on Wednesday. I thought I had done enough research, maybe I just didn't dig deep enough. I probably should've gotten that diagnostics tool before buying but oh well. I don't regret it, love the car, just some whiplash I suppose. A bit long so the quick tl;dr is that the guesstimator for range seems widlly off. Am I driving wrong (try to keep it at or below 3 dots, heard thats best) or is trusting the car a mistake?

Anyway I'm sitting at the charger with a super low car AND phone battery, so I'm posting here in hopes to gain insight from those more experienced.

All that aside, I'm concerned about the discrepancy of actual miles able to drive vs what the guesstimator says. And in fact it nearly stranded me. My car said it was at ~55%, telling me I had 35 so miles on it. Friend needed to be picked up at the er, but they took her down a ways becuase hospitals are full. Okay, 12 miles one way, 24 will leave me enough for a round trip. I am at 22% when I get there, we charge for a bit cause its now reading 14 miles and she lives 9 miles away. Don't have a quick charger port, plus isn't one nearby. We sit for a little while to hopefully get us comfortably to our next stop. Got her home but I literally barely got to a charger, made it on 6%. Should've expected that but I guess I'm still processing everything. I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or if somethings off with the car or even if its entirely expected behavior.

Thankfully my current normal commute to work is very small (2.5 miles one way) with top speeds of 45mph. Though this makes me feel a little helpless in an emergency. So yea, that's where I'm at.
 
Welcome to the forum. I have two observations:

* The range estimator is worthless, especially on the Gen 1 Leaf. It just uses the most recent few minutes of driving to estimate range. Since those last few minutes are often spent slowly driving to your home or parking space, the estimate is usually quite wrong. Use the % charge remaining, instead. I also suggest that you get LeafSpy Pro, because that app offers a better range estimator function. You will also need a Bluetooth dongle like the one in my signature.

* Unless you are driving the car hard, or have very soft tires (try 40-42psi) you should be getting a bit more range on 11 bars. Of course, the way the capacity display works, you could be much closer to 10 bars. I'm going to link my Tips & Tricks FAQ here shortly. It should help you improve your range.

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=23297&p=482154
 
LeftieBiker said:
Welcome to the forum. I have two observations:

* The range estimator is worthless, especially on the Gen 1 Leaf. It just uses the most recent few minutes of driving to estimate range. Since those last few minutes are often spent slowly driving to your home or parking space, the estimate is usually quite wrong. Use the % charge remaining, instead. I also suggest that you get LeafSpy Pro, because that app offers a better range estimator function. You will also need a Bluetooth dongle like the one in my signature.

* Unless you are driving the car hard, or have very soft tires (try 40-42psi) you should be getting a bit more range on 11 bars. Of course, the way the capacity display works, you could be much closer to 10 bars. I'm going to link my Tips & Tricks FAQ here shortly. It should help you improve your range.

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=23297&p=482154
* Good to know that I'm not just losing my mind. Been using the % charge to try to calculate stuff, but it'll take some time to get the feel for it. I just ordered the dongle for LeafSpy, should be here Monday.

* The tire pressure one is a little unsettling, checking the service record when the dealer put the tires on they only pumped them to 36psi. And thank you for the link to the in-depth guide and taking the time to write that. Hopefully adding some pressure to the tires will help.

Seriously thank you for taking the time to respond, I deeply appreciate it.
 
The battery system aka BMS may have been reset to 12 bars and is now slowly adjusting back to its true condition. If you lose more bars quickly that is almost certainly the case. If that turns out to be true you should try to return the car as a battery reset is basically fraud except in cases where a new battery pack is installed.
 
The BMS reset is indeed possible, although not yet clearly the case. Any loss of more than one capacity bar per year is likely indicative of a reset, though. More than one bar lost over several months or less is a dead giveaway.

36psi is actually what Nissan puts on the labels as the suggested pressure, but it is far too low. Toyota does something similar, to get a nice, soft ride. If you want to be conservative, 40psi is a good place to set the tire pressures. That will give you at least a few miles more range.
 
Stellaluna, if you are ok with the possibility of an unpleasant surprise, check the build date for your Leaf. It's on a sticker on the driver's side door sill. If it was built before April of 2013, then it has the first generation battery chemistry rather than the improved 2nd gen chemistry, and you are likely the victim of a BMS reset. Those early '13 Leafs with the poor chemistry degrade as fast as the 2011 and 2012 Leafs, and it is unlikely that yours has 11 actual capacity bars. If this is the case, then you'll want to make every effort to get a refund on the car. If the car was built in April or later, then you are most likely just dealing with more normal battery degradation...
 
Well I'll change the tire pressure and hope for the best. It also needs some fluids changed, transmission and breaks. Took it in yesterday cause the battery plate recall wasn't taken care of by the prior owner. I don't mind a low range but taking nearly 8% battery for 2.5 miles on my work commute is a bit...much.

I did check the date, it was built in the second half of 2013 it looks like. It hasn't dropped more bars yet but I'll keep an eye out. Just none of the other Leafs I looked at didn't seem shy about showing their life on the meter so I figured it'd be fine. We'll see what LeafSpy says about the situation Monday when I get the dongle I guess.

The thing is if its normal degregation wouldn't the car register that? Like its GOM is **** but some of those internal things have to be right.
 
If the Battery Management System (BMS) wasn't reset, then LeafSpy will give you accurate readings. The other abnormal possibility is that the battery may have one or more defective cells. In that case the car would lose apparent capacity rapidly in the course of a drive. LeafSpy Pro will also show if that is the case. The battery defect warranty is 8 years on your car, so I suggest checking that ASAP, if the car hasn't yet passed 8 years since it was put into service.
 
i can't believe the 11 bars could be real on a 2013, just no way to hold up that high. Batteries wear out, if not from usage, then just from age.

Also if you want to extend your miles you should use ECO mode and not get up into 3 balls on the power meter--use a softer acceleration and feather that thang. i have a 2012 with 7 bars and can drive 50 miles using this technique, getting 5.0 to 5.2 miles/kWh average. First time EV drives typically run out of "fuel" on their first outing, seen it happen numerous times, so don't worry about it you will learn how to reduce speed to always get home.

Look on your energy info screen in the center display and look at the history tab to see how it was doing in the past, that might provide a clue of a BMS reset
 
Actually, my 2013 SV just dropped to 10 bars two weeks ago and my sister's 2013 SL still has 11 bars. It seems that living in Vancouver makes a big difference for pack longevity.
 
I do first wanna say thank you so much everyone for the responses, it's given me a lot to think about. I definitely need to learn to drive the car. There is a huge amount of whiplash going from driving an ICE to an EV. LeafSpy will be the real determiner of if I return it or not I think, and that dongle should be here tomorrow. Overall I don't drive all that much and don't think I might too terribly if I only have a range of about 35-40 miles. Range anxiety will be less of a worry once I know the limitations better. Also to know if 8k (after fees) was still a decent enough deal to keep it.

If I end up returning it, I'll at least know what to look for when shopping for my next Leaf, cause I absolutely love everything else about the car. It's also my first time buying/financing my own car so plenty I didn't know until now.
 
stellaluna said:
I do first wanna say thank you so much everyone for the responses, it's given me a lot to think about. I definitely need to learn to drive the car. There is a huge amount of whiplash going from driving an ICE to an EV. LeafSpy will be the real determiner of if I return it or not I think, and that dongle should be here tomorrow. Overall I don't drive all that much and don't think I might too terribly if I only have a range of about 35-40 miles. Range anxiety will be less of a worry once I know the limitations better. Also to know if 8k (after fees) was still a decent enough deal to keep it.

If I end up returning it, I'll at least know what to look for when shopping for my next Leaf, cause I absolutely love everything else about the car. It's also my first time buying/financing my own car so plenty I didn't know until now.

If you determine that the battery is good (not dealership BMS reset stuff we all hate here) then even if it is a 10 to 11 bar vehicle, that means there are a lot of tweaks left to increase range.
I drove my 2013 hard and hot, *all the time* to battery melting temperatures for over 75,000 miles and only got my battery down to 9 bars with 70 miles of range per charge daily still possible. If you want to squeeze every last mile out of that battery, LeafSpy will make it possible. The key is getting the battery balanced as best as possible, tires optimized for either ride comfort or distance, and if you are really a gear head, tweaks to the gear oil itself, all those little things can up to more and more range.
 
nlspace said:
i can't believe the 11 bars could be real on a 2013, just no way to hold up that high.
Back in the beginning of the year when I last spoke to the guy who bought it, my 2013 it still had 11 bars.
 
It seems that living in Vancouver makes a big difference for pack longevity.

BC south coast is the sweet spot for EVs. Rarely below freezing and never by much, never very hot (well historically anyway - ignoring that heat dome this past summer).
 
My dad's 2013 SV was 80% SOH the last time I checked it a few weeks ago. So still 11 bars but just barely.

I bought it 2nd hand here in CO and hauled it to NE Iowa. I don't know its entire history but it's just over 50k miles now.
 
Dongle arrived, and good news! It seems like LeafSpy is reading a SoH of 82.11% and that means I am just driving a Leaf the worst anyone's ever driven one haha

Just woke up so need to eat before I go change the tire pressure and charge the beast up. Thank you everyone for the responses and tips. Hopefully over the next few months I'll get adjusted to driving this and get a better range as I go. Quite frankly I've grown quite attached to this car so returning it would've been sad. The Nissan dealer did recommend getting the break and transmission fluids changed, so probably gunna do the break fluid myself and hand them the money to change the transmission.
 
The numbers do seem to point to a normally degraded 2013 with the later build, and better, battery. I think you'll find that just setting the tire pressure to 40psi cold, and not blasting the heater*, will give you decent range, on the order of about 50 miles in Fall, 30-40 miles in cold Winter weather. Also, if you aren't using Eco mode to drive, do so. You still get full power when you floor it.

* The Leaf S has no heat pump, so the resistance heater will suck lots of power when used. Read again in the Tips & Tricks about using partial recirculate, a lower fan speed, and the Floor + Defrost settings to lower heater consumption. And definitely preheat the car while it's plugged in, in cold weather.
 
It takes a while to learn to get the best efficiency from an EV. I watch the power 'bubble's and try to limit my acceleration to 4. Also, coast in N when you can and try to time the lights. A lot depends on what kind of roads you drive on but I average around 5 m/kWh on my very EV friendly commute.
 
How do I know I'm in eco? I assume I am cause the D shows Eco next to it and I cant shift into eco only. I also super need to get a back dash cam because the other drivers in my area dont like how slow this things speeds up if I don't floor it, especially on hills. Their problem but makes me super nervous.

Same Brick, I try to limit to four, only pushing it when someones super on my ass. I wouldn't be at fault but not in any hurry to play bumper cars with impatient drivers. My car will reach speed when she feels like it and thats fine with me haha
 
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