Just recently signed up - Question about buying a used Leaf from the Phoenix area

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curro

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Hello everyone, just recently signed up to this great site. I do not own an EV yet but one is in my plans for 2022 The Nissan Leaf came into play because is the only one currently supporting bi-directional (V2H) charging and that got my attention. Apparently Nissan doe not void the warranty in this reagrd.

Ok, I have a question regarding the risk of buying a used Nissan Leaf such as this one in such a hot place like Phoenix, Arizona!!!

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?zip=77007&maxPrice=13000&showNegotiable=true&sortDir=ASC&sourceContext=untrackedExternal_false_0&distance=50000&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=c26133&sortType=DEAL_SCORE&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=c26133#listing=312298302/FEATURED
 
I wouldn't buy a LEAF if I lived in AZ.

Wait for a few years, when there should be other EVs available in your market that are reasonably priced and have an actively cooled battery pack.

I know there are others here, who live in AZ and own LEAFs who will disagree, so you would have some company if you decide to go ahead with the purchase.

One thing in your favor is a good battery pack warranty on the LEAF. If you can live with less range until you qualify for a free replacement pack then it might be worthwhile. However, you risk that the pack degrades not quite quickly enough to ever qualify for a free replacement pack.
 
The 40kwh and 62kwh Leafs (2018+) are more heat resistant than earlier versions. The 30kwh pack, which I dubbed the "Lettuce Pack," would wilt like its namesake. It has an 8 year, 100k mile battery warranty, though, so if you'd like to try to 'hit the battery lottery' then one of those would be a relatively safe bet in that climate. Don't buy a 24kwh Leaf, because even the more heat-resistant "Lizard Pack" isn't heat resistant enough, and the battery warranty is only 60k miles/5 years for those packs. Which is to say that virtually all of them are now off warranty.
 
The car listed in the original post is no longer available so I cannot comment on it. I agree with LeftieBiker's recommendations. The 62 kWh battery in my 2019 is doing fine after 2 years and 37k miles in Phoenix (probably no more capacity loss than other cars with active battery cooling) and definitely much better than the 24 kWh batteries in my 2011 and 2015. I would not recommend a LEAF if you live in Phoenix and your usage pattern would require frequent DC quick charges because there are not a lot of CHAdeMO units left in the area and quick charges add heat to the battery (which takes a while to dissipate). Almost all of my charging is at home using 240 volts (only 12 quick charges since new and one of those was in the factory).
 
The warranty went up significantly starting with the 2018 model didn't it?

Not to toot my own horn, but I think where I live and phoenix have to be two of the hottest places in the whole country -> at least represented on the forum here. Not sure what the highest temp Phoenix reached this year was but we were 119f.

My 2018 SOH might be slightly lower than others here with a 2018 but its not far off. One odd thing is that SOH seems to be disconnected from mileage. My mileage is low but my SOH is fairly close to other 2018's.

So I concur, if you are looking used, go 2018 or newer.

I figure my vehicle sat on a dealer's lot, probably 90% charged :roll: , for a full year in the heat before I bought it, then I have put it through three summers here, and I'm just below 90% SOH. Still full battery bars.
 
My 2018 SOH might be slightly lower than others here with a 2018 but its not far off. One odd thing is that SOH seems to be disconnected from mileage. My mileage is low but my SOH is fairly close to other 2018's.

If you think about it though, it makes sense. Degradation of an ICE is really a reflection of accumulated wear caused by physical contact surfaces on engine, transmission, and other powertrain components.

A battery doesn't suffer from mechanical degradation, it's all about chemistry and heat. A LEAF pack can't shed heat as fast as a well designed, actively cooled pack.

So, the hotter the climate, the more the pack struggles to regulate heat, and the more the pack degrades.
 
The warranty went up significantly starting with the 2018 model didn't it?

It went up starting with the 2016 30kwh packs, actually. I'll bet that Nissan is kicking themselves about that! They start building a truly unfortunate battery, and raise the warranty on it to 8 years, 100k miles. ;)
 
LeftieBiker said:
Well, let's see: they carefully block all views of the capacity bars... that and these online dealers tend to sell lease returns from hot climates. Never buy a Leaf without info on the battery State Of health (SOH) and especially not from Hot locations. Let me link my used Leaf buying guide.

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=26662&p=538030

Thanks for the reply and the link provided.

So basically if I am buying an EV, and specifically a Nissan Leaf, remotley I better have a person 'in situ' over there to go with the right tool and get the real battery State Of health (SOH). Makes sense.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The 40kwh and 62kwh Leafs (2018+) are more heat resistant than earlier versions. The 30kwh pack, which I dubbed the "Lettuce Pack," would wilt like its namesake. It has an 8 year, 100k mile battery warranty, though, so if you'd like to try to 'hit the battery lottery' then one of those would be a relatively safe bet in that climate. Don't buy a 24kwh Leaf, because even the more heat-resistant "Lizard Pack" isn't heat resistant enough, and the battery warranty is only 60k miles/5 years for those packs. Which is to say that virtually all of them are now off warranty.

Ok, so from a perspective of durability and reliability, a 2018 (or later) Leaf battery pack is preferable to a 2017 battery pack?
 
Oh yes, very much so. The only asterisk here is that the 2018 40kwh packs had a somewhat higher than usual number of bad cells. Those should all have been found and replaced by now, however.
 
One other thing to keep in mind, that good 8 yr warranty started the day of first purchase - not manufacturing.

So, as an example, my warranty on my 2018 started May 2019.
 
danrjones said:
One other thing to keep in mind, that good 8 yr warranty started the day of first purchase - not manufacturing.

So, as an example, my warranty on my 2018 started May 2019.

Good to know. Thank you!
 
LeftieBiker said:
Oh yes, very much so. The only asterisk here is that the 2018 40kwh packs had a somewhat higher than usual number of bad cells. Those should all have been found and replaced by now, however.

Ok, so new generation with some quality control issues. Got it.

Do any of the Leaf models have active thermal control for the batteries?
 
Do any of the Leaf models have active thermal control for the batteries?

No. The 24kwh packs got a little bit of air cooling while the car was moving, but from 2018 (IIRC) on there isn't enough air space between the battery and the body for air to flow there. The 62kwh packs seem to have enough extra mass that they heat up more slowly, but that also means that they cool off more slowly.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Do any of the Leaf models have active thermal control for the batteries?

No. The 24kwh packs got a little bit of air cooling while the car was moving, but from 2018 (IIRC) on there isn't enough any air space between the battery and the body for air to flow there. The 62kwh packs seem to have enough extra mass that they heat up more slowly, but that also means that they cool off more slowly.
I don't think the air cooling is much different between the 24 kWh and 62 kWh batteries (I have no personal experience with 30 kWh or 40 kWh batteries), but the larger mass of the 62 kWh battery does heat up slower and cool off slower. There is still some air flow space around the 62 kWh battery. FWIW, my 2011 battery cooled off faster that the 2015 because the 2011 did not have the cold weather package so it did not have the thermal insulation that the 2015 had. On the other hand, the 2015 had much less capacity loss vs. time/mileage in my climate than the 2011. As noted previously, the 2019 has very little capacity loss so far (much better after 2 years than the 2015).
 
Thanks for the replies regarding the Leaf not having an active thermal control for the batteries.

In general, I might not discard completely looking at a 2017 model but I will be more inclined to search for a good price in a 2018 model if the battery health checks out. That will be the tricky part if the vehicle for sale is so many miles away from me.

Hoping that in about a years time the used car market will have cooled off somewhat (no pun intended :) ).
 
In general, I might not discard completely looking at a 2017 model but I will be more inclined to search for a good price in a 2018 model if the battery health checks out.

The only possible reason to look for 30kwh Leaf in that climate would be to try for a free 40kwh warranty replacement. Would that be your plan?
 
LeftieBiker said:
In general, I might not discard completely looking at a 2017 model but I will be more inclined to search for a good price in a 2018 model if the battery health checks out.

The only possible reason to look for 30kwh Leaf in that climate would be to try for a free 40kwh warranty replacement. Would that be your plan?

Telling you the truth no, I would not like to gamble this way.

Ok so 2018 minimum year to go used Nissan Leaf. I would like to keep the car for seven years or so.
 
FWIW, IEVS just posted this, which contains some general advice. Maybe this should go in Leftie's newbie advice topic, but I can't find that:
How Much Range Does an Electric Car Lose Each Year?
All EVs offer a multitude of measures used to slow down the process of battery degradation. However, the process is inevitable.

https://insideevs.com/features/539278/electric-car-ev-degradation-battery/


Edit: Found the topic I was looking for ("Links to Helpful FAQS & Posts on Tips, Tricks, & Common Issues"). Leftie, should I move the post there, or would you rather keep it here and just link it?
 
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