Should I buy 2022 Leaf S Plus for commuting?

For your viewing pleasure, this was in my Gen 1 Leaf, using Eco tires but with all the traction control turned off for snow and slush driving. This is why you don't driving in snow in TN because no one knows how. :lol: You can't tell in the first video, but it is actually quite a steep hill to the stoplight. The second video, the slush was close to about a foot deep, helped a lady who crashed on the side of the road by pulling her car out of the bank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btKmh8dECP4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl1JrRZpFRI

SOH on a 5 year old LEAF could be 80%,

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The Gen II Leaf seems to do substantially better on degradation than the Gen 1.5 that preceded it - and much better than the (Gen 1.75?) 30kwh pack that immediately preceded the Gen II.

Here is what I think at this point: the Leaf Plus (with heat pump) could do the job 95% of the time, for about 5 years. The other 5% would require charging at work. But between the extra cost of leasing mile overage and the extra cost of an SV+, the OP should be better off with a Kona.

Having spent a couple years in Branson MO, I can definitely understand how dangerous the smallest of snow storms are. You make a good point about the mild heat and battery degradation in MA. I agree that the battery would have longer life here than warmer climates. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm thinking that the cold temperatures are much more of a range killer consideration than snow, because to your point, we rarely have to push through snow if we are patient enough to wait for the plows. Certainly nobody's life depends on my job, so I would opt to work from home on those days. I am concerned about the income limit on 7500 that senate passed. If it becomes law, households with incomes over 100,000 would not be eligible. This makes no sense at all to me.. if I'm single with one car making 90,000 and need one car, then I am eligible, but if I am married and my wife and I each make 51,000 and need two cars, we are both ineligible.. My reason for bringing that up is that I may get whichever car becomes available first, Kona or Leaf, before the rules change.. Thanks for all the effort in the response to my question.
Looking forward to watching video.. just not somewhere I can do that at the moment.

Just to be clear, I realize that in the couple each making 51,000 scenario, they would not have enough of a tax burden to take advantage of the the full 7500 anyway, unless filing jointly, which actually makes me understand this proposed change even less..

JO2022 said:

Having spent a couple years in Branson MO, I can definitely understand how dangerous the smallest of snow storms are. You make a good point about the mild heat and battery degradation in MA. I agree that the battery would have longer life here than warmer climates. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm thinking that the cold temperatures are much more of a range killer consideration than snow, because to your point, we rarely have to push through snow if we are patient enough to wait for the plows. Certainly nobody's life depends on my job, so I would opt to work from home on those days.

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My experience with Winter driving in a LEAF is a sense that a combination of temperature, snow accumulation, and wind contribute to diminished range. My area of NE Ohio is subject to considerable lake-effect snow off of Lake Erie with a lot of blowing & drifting. If actively snowing, temps tend to be warmer but it still take considerable heat on the windshield to minimize ice buildup, in addition to added forward resistance from the snow on the road. If colder, tends to be drier but fog-up can be a concern and road speeds tend to be faster. All these factors contribute.

Gut hunch is you would be fine on range with an SV+ or SL+ as long as it has the heat pump, heated seats, heated steering wheel, heated mirrors/rear defrost. I would never own a LEAF without those options in this climate. This coming Winter will likely try a set of dedicated Winter tires for the 1st time, which certain will cost some range.

The use profile described (110 mile RT commute, and consistent daily 135 miles) on a 225 mile rated LEAF is a better range margin than I have on a 150 mile 40 KWh LEAF (76 mile RT commute, 85-90 miles daily). I would encourage you to not become fixated on DCFC as the only option for those one-off range situations. Many times, 30 minutes on a L2 is enough to get home and can be incorporated into other errands. I did the same commute with a 24 KWh LEAF with only L2 (didn't have a DCFC port) for 3 years. Yes, it was a struggle and I used my other car much of the time for a couple months but was doable. You come across as the type that will find a way to make this work, which is a huge part of the equation.

Hi,
Thanks for the sharing your experience and commute data and your confidence that I will make it work. You nailed it... Sorry I am lousy at posting in these forums. I do not know how to quote but will go out of my way to learn how tomorrow. In your post you mentioned that a leaf model sv or sv plus would be better option, with heat pump, heated seats, heated steering, etc. I believe it is rated with a smaller range than the s plus. Is it possible that the higher range on the s plus only applies during peak conditions, but actually gets lower range during snowy, slushy, freezing temperatures?
Thanks.

Here's how the range difference works: in milder weather in which the heat is needed: I have no doubt that the SV+ and SL+ exceed the range of the S+. Why? Because the resistance heater that is the only heat source in the S (although it also assists with heat in the heat pump-equipped models) draws much more power than the heat pump. Then, as the temps drop well below roughly 20F and the heat pump's contribution becomes tiny, the modest range advantage of the S+ may (or may not, as we aren't certain what it's due to - maybe the wheels) reassert itself, giving the S+ either the same range or slightly more range than the SV+ and SL+ in Frigid temps. Since most Winter weather in most places involves temps in which the heat pump will operate, those models with it are the better choice. It is possible, though, that the S+ may hold a slight range advantage in sub-20F temps...

There are two ways to quote a post: either click on the quotation marks on the upper right part of the window displaying a post to quote the whole post, or in the case of oft-quoted or long posts, you can copy and paste the relevant line(s), into the reply/composition box, highlight them, and then select "Quote" from the options above the box.

Wheel size is my hunch too with respect to longer EPA range of the S Plus. It's too bad Nissan doesn't offer a choice of 16" wheels on the SV and SL, large wheels definitely are less efficient...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYvKxsYFqO8

I plan to put it to the test next summer when I put the 16" rims from my S+ on to my SV+ (I put ev01+s in my S+).

The smaller rims also cause the car to ride about 1/2" lower which is positive for higher speed driving.

The SV+ with tech /SL+ also pay a small penalty for additional electronics over the S+.

There are two ways to quote a post: either click on the quotation marks on the upper right part of the window displaying a post to quote the whole post, or in the case of oft-quoted or long posts, you can copy and paste the relevant line(s), into the reply/composition box, highlight them, and then select "Quote" from the options above the box

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I think I got it on the quotes... Thanks...

Also thank you everyone for the great information. Maybe the SV plus is going to be the best choice for me... It sounds like the SV plus is the way to go during the MA shoulder weeks... January and February are probably where the S-Plus might get better sub 20 range... That's only 60 days, so I'm thinking I'd be better off with SV plus... During the warmer months, either trim level gets plenty of mileage for my needs.

Thanks...

JO2022 said:

There are two ways to quote a post: either click on the quotation marks on the upper right part of the window displaying a post to quote the whole post, or in the case of oft-quoted or long posts, you can copy and paste the relevant line(s), into the reply/composition box, highlight them, and then select "Quote" from the options above the box

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I think I got it on the quotes... Thanks...

Also thank you everyone for the great information. Maybe the SV plus is going to be the best choice for me... It sounds like the SV plus is the way to go during the MA shoulder weeks... January and February are probably where the S-Plus might get better sub 20 range... That's only 60 days, so I'm thinking I'd be better off with SV plus... During the warmer months, either trim level gets plenty of mileage for my needs.

Thanks...

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Should add to try the different equipment package variants of the SV+ if at all possible. It's a highly personal choice, but found the cloth seats of the SV to be much more comfortable than the leather in the SL that I purchased. However, I went for an SL because it was available straight off the delivery truck and was totally hooked on the tech package toys during test drive (power seats, Bose sound, ProPilot, top-view camera, LED headlights). Those LED headlights are the best I've had in any car, and getting to an age that I need all the help possible driving at night. The price difference is nominal in that price bracket so make sure it has everything you find desirable. It definitely does enhance the ownership experience.

I agree with Knightmb and Rogersleaf--an SV+ or SL+ (with heat pump, heated steering wheel, heated seats, and heated mirrors) will work for you as long as there are some L2 public charging stations along the route that you could use in the unlikely event that you need them (and you have 30-ampere, 240-volt charging at home). There is a lot of pessimism about the longevity of LEAF batteries, but the 62 kWh versions seem to be doing well. I am the poster boy for how not to treat a battery, but my car still has between 92.3% and 93.5% of its original capacity (depending upon which parameter is considered--AHr, SOH, "Gids" from LEAF Spy or actual charging energy from a meter on the input to my EVSE) after 25 months and 37,420 miles in my hot, dry climate (much better than the batteries in my earlier cars). Almost every charge cycle is a full charge after relatively deep discharge. LEAF Spy indicates 12 QC and 250 L1/L2 charge cycles for 37,420 miles which is an average of 142.8 miles per charge even though there were some charge cycles in the factory and at the dealer along with some partial charges to test my portable generators under load. The "guess-o-meter" (distance to empty) was 225 miles and I drove 166.9 miles on the last charge, as an example.

GerryAZ said:

I agree with Knightmb and Rogersleaf--an SV+ or SL+ (with heat pump, heated steering wheel, heated seats, and heated mirrors) will work for you as long as there are some L2 public charging stations along the route that you could use in the unlikely event that you need them (and you have 30-ampere, 240-volt charging at home).

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And there's the rub, as the OP stated:

I am planning on purchasing this in November and if I can't reliably get 160 miles on a charge, it would be devastating

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The OP seems unwilling/unable to rely on an occasional L2 or DCFC charge en-route. It seems really unlikely there are zero charging opportunities en-route. I don't understand the mindset that an EV has to make the round trip on a single charge all year round, but then I make do with a 24 kWh pack that requires en-route charging on a regular basis. That, and I'm cheap so I can't justify spending over $50k USD to get an EV that will do more than 260 miles per charge (Ford Mustang Mach-E, pick your Tesla) :lol:

alozzy said:

GerryAZ said:

I agree with Knightmb and Rogersleaf--an SV+ or SL+ (with heat pump, heated steering wheel, heated seats, and heated mirrors) will work for you as long as there are some L2 public charging stations along the route that you could use in the unlikely event that you need them (and you have 30-ampere, 240-volt charging at home).

Click to expand...

And there's the rub, as the OP stated:

I am planning on purchasing this in November and if I can't reliably get 160 miles on a charge, it would be devastating

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The OP seems unwilling/unable to rely on an occasional L2 or DCFC charge en-route. It seems really unlikely there are zero charging opportunities en-route. I don't understand the mindset that an EV has to make the round trip on a single charge all year round, but then I make do with a 24 kWh pack that requires en-route charging on a regular basis. That, and I'm cheap so I can't justify spending over $50k USD to get an EV that will do more than 260 miles per charge (Ford Mustang Mach-E, pick your Tesla) :lol:

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Hi,
There are level 2 charging stations along the route, but no CHAdeMO. I agree with you though, I want to do the right thing for the environment, but my original intent was to save money. No point on spending 50,000 on an electric car that would otherwise cost 25,000. I have decided to go with the sv plus. As far as the wheel size, I am told that the factory 17" tires are the same ride height as the 16". Same circumference too. The side wall on the 17" has a lower profile, to fit the larger wheel, while keeping the ride height the same. I think in some days I will be cutting it close on my commute, but I think an hour on a level 2 would get me another 15 to 20 miles if needed. Would be a good way to unwind after work.. hit a coffee shop near a charger or something... Thanks everyone, you all have really given me the confidence to move forward and convinced me to go with sv plus, instead of S plus. I think I will be much better off during the shoulder months...

Sorry, posted same twice. Deleted text..

I would encourage you to not become fixated on DCFC as the only option for those one-off range situations. Many times, 30 minutes on a L2 is enough to get home and can be incorporated into other errands

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Agreed.... thanks. I will report back how it is working out if I can still access this thread a couple of months from now...

Not sure why you wouldn't... You can see threads you started/replied to via https://mynissanleaf.com/search.php?search_id=egosearch. It's accessible via the hamburger menu in the upper left > Your Posts.

Thank you..

I believe the range/efficiency difference between the S+ and SV+ or SL+ is due to the 16-inch tires being Bridgestone Ecopia and a size narrower than the 17-inch Michelin Energy Saver A/S. The 16-inch tires are 205 mm while the 17-inch tires are 215 mm width.

The rims are 5 lbs lighter each, also which helps. The S+ "feels" like it has lighter steering as a result.