3.3 vs 6.6 KW on-board charger - charging times?

Hi,

New to the Leaf and this forum. Hello

I'm looking for ballpark numbers on charging times. My 2013 Leaf S has the 3.3 kW on-board charger and I saw that I can upgrade to 6.6 kW. My EVSE can deliver 7.2 kW (240V/30A). Now before throwing lots of money on the Leaf, I am curious if there is a table that gives me some input on how charging times change from empty to full between 3.3 and 6.6.

Can anybody point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

AFAIK I think it's pretty much half the time. Not sure on the Leaf, but most other lithium ion batteries charge fast to 80% then slower after that. So I'd assume half the time up to 80%, not sure after that.

LEAF Charge-Rate Chart
Assumes 30 amp pilot signal from EVSE


----------- Japan --- USA/Canada - The World --- USA/Canada
Amps --- 200 volts --- 208 volts --- 230 volts ------- 240volts

16 -------- 3.2kW -------- 3.3kW ---- 3.7kW ------ 3.8kW
27.5 ------ 5.5kW** ------ 5.7kW** --- 6.3kW ------ 6.6kW


Obviously, the charger will output some value below those stated above, at about 85-90%. So, a typical LEAF drawing 16 amps at your North American house's 240 volts will put 3.3kW into the battery, and draw 3.8kW from the wall.

The new 2013 LEAF with optional 27.5 amp charger will be about 6.6kW at 240 volts. The 2013 LEAF-S retains the 16 amp charger of all previous LEAFs.

**I don't know if its been measured at 200 or 208 volts yet to see if it increases to 30 amps.**

**********************************************************************

Miles Gained per Hour Charging


Amps/Volts -- Where ---- 65mph / 4 miles per kWh

12 / 120 ------- Any ------ 4.0 miles (supplied cable with car in USA/Canada)
12 / 208 ------ Public ----- 8.4 miles (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)
12 / 240 ------ Home ----- 9.6 miles (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)
16 / 208 ------ Public ----- 11.1 miles (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)****
16 / 240 ------ Home ----- 12.9 miles (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)
20 / 208 ------ Public ----- 14.1 miles (Clipper Creek LCS-25)
20 / 240 ------ Home ----- 16.3 miles (Clipper Creek LCS-25)
25 / 208 ------ Public ----- 17.8 miles (EVSEupgrade.com 2013 LEAF)
25 / 240 ------ Home ----- 20.6 miles (EVSEupgrade.com 2013 LEAF)
30 / 208 ------ Public ----- 21.4 miles (unverified at 30 amps**)
30 / 240 ------ Home ----- 22.7 miles (limited to 27.5 amps)


**** will likely pull 18 amps at 208 volts****

**I don't know if its been measured at 200 or 208 volts yet to see if it increases to 30 amps.**


**********************************************************************


Hours to charge LEAF with warm new condition battery
From Turtle mode ("dead") to 100%


Amps/Volts -- Where ---- Time

12 / 120 ------- Any ------ 22.8 hours (supplied cable with car in USA/Canada)
12 / 208 ------ Public ----- 11.4 hours (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)
12 / 240 ------ Home ------ 9.9 hours (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)
16 / 208 ------ Public ------ 8.6 hours (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)****
16 / 240 ------ Home ------ 7.4 hours (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)
20 / 208 ------ Public ------ 6.7 hours (Clipper Creek LCS-25)
20 / 240 ------ Home ------ 5.9 hours (Clipper Creek LCS-25)
25 / 208 ------ Public ------ 5.4 hours (EVSEupgrade.com 2013 LEAF)
25 / 240 ------ Home ------ 4.7 hours (EVSEupgrade.com 2013 LEAF)
30 / 208 ------ Public ------ 4.5 hours (unverified at 30 amps**)
30 / 240 ------ Home ------ 4.2 hours (limited to 27.5 amps)


**** will likely pull 18 amps at 208 volts****

**I don't know if its been measured at 200 or 208 volts yet to see if it increases to 30 amps.**

TonyWilliams said:

The new 2013 LEAF with optional 27.5 amp charger will be about 6.6kW at 240 volts.

Click to expand...

But do those 6.6kW also apply to the 2013 Nissan Leaf S, which has the 3.3 kW on-board charger only?

hara said:

TonyWilliams said:

The new 2013 LEAF with optional 27.5 amp charger will be about 6.6kW at 240 volts.

Click to expand...

But do those 6.6kW also apply to the 2013 Nissan Leaf S, which has the 3.3 kW on-board charger only?

Click to expand...

The word "optional" being the key word. You have to pay about $1200 extra to get the 6.0/6.6kW onboard charger for the LEAF-S. The 3.3kW charger is a 16 amp pilot signal. I've edited my post above to reflect miles gained per hour and time to charge from zero to hero.

Great updates! Thank you very much!

6.6 is clearly a faster option.

hara said:

I'm looking for ballpark numbers on charging times. My 2013 Leaf S has the 3.3 kW on-board charger and I saw that I can upgrade to 6.6 kW.

Click to expand...

Can you actually upgrade to 6 kW (not 6.6, BTW) after buying S ? I thought the charger upgrade was a factory installed option.

Unless you wanted to buy the parts and tackle it yourself, which would be prohibitively expensive, there is no way to get it after the fact.

evnow said:

Can you actually upgrade to 6 kW (not 6.6, BTW) after buying S ? I thought the charger upgrade was a factory installed option.

Click to expand...

evnow said:

hara said:

I'm looking for ballpark numbers on charging times. My 2013 Leaf S has the 3.3 kW on-board charger and I saw that I can upgrade to 6.6 kW.

Click to expand...

Can you actually upgrade to 6 kW (not 6.6, BTW) after buying S ? I thought the charger upgrade was a factory installed option.

Click to expand...

I wish we would let the 6.0kW / 6.6kW issue die a peaceful death. Nissan markets the charger as a 6.6kW. That's the max it will pull from the wall socket. No, it doesn't match up with "3.3kW" nomenclature, since that can pull up to 3.8kW from wall socket.

If we're going to really split hairs, it's an "up to" 6.6kW charging system, since it can and does pull significantly less in many different conditions that I've outlined a few posts up. There's plenty more to split. If the battery is cold or seriously degraded, that 6.0/6.6kW charger won't put 6.0kW into the battery.

Tesla uses the same "from the wall socket" rating on their equipment, too: 40 amps at 250 volts is 10kW. But, just like the LEAF, it will be far less than that at lower voltages and with less than 40 amp pilot signals. By the same token, increasing the voltage to 277 volts used by virtually every street light in the USA/Canada lowers the amps the 36 so as not to exceed 10kW.

Lets just simply explain the nomenclature differences to newbies, and leave it at that.

Hi guys, so I have a 240V NEMA 14-50 in my garage already. What are my options to charge the LEAF can the charging cable / brick that comes with it be easily/cheaply upgraded?

trekker56 said:

Hi guys, so I have a 240V NEMA 14-50 in my garage already. What are my options to charge the LEAF can the charging cable / brick that comes with it be easily/cheaply upgraded?

Click to expand...

What year is your LEAF and which onboard charger do you have?

Generally speaking, send your portable "brick" to http://www.EVSEupgrade.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for modification and buy a NEMA 14-50 plug and put that on the L6-20 or L6-30 pigtail (it will matter what year your LEAF is to determine which "brick" you have, thus which L6 it will get modified to).

You can buy a ready made pigtail from http://www.EVSEadapters.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, but they will need to know which L6 (20 or 30) for your NEMA 14-50 plug.

TonyWilliams said:

I wish we would let the 6.0kW / 6.6kW issue die a peaceful death. Nissan markets the charger as a 6.6kW. That's the max it will pull from the wall socket. No, it doesn't match up with "3.3kW" nomenclature, since that can pull up to 3.8kW from wall socket. ... Lets just simply explain the nomenclature differences to newbies, and leave it at that.

Click to expand...

I guess I don't see the difference. The point of calling it a 6.0kW charger is the beginning of explaining the nomenclature difference. If we just use the numbers 3.3 and 6.6 together in the same post or thread without saying anything, people will keep making erroneous conclusions we have to correct (assuming they don't just make those conclusions silently). I prefer we keep it as straight as possible.

Just think of it as being up there with Nissan's 100 mile range claim...

davewill said:

TonyWilliams said:

I wish we would let the 6.0kW / 6.6kW issue die a peaceful death. Nissan markets the charger as a 6.6kW. That's the max it will pull from the wall socket. No, it doesn't match up with "3.3kW" nomenclature, since that can pull up to 3.8kW from wall socket. ... Lets just simply explain the nomenclature differences to newbies, and leave it at that.

Click to expand...

I guess I don't see the difference. The point of calling it a 6.0kW charger is the beginning of explaining the nomenclature difference. If we just use the numbers 3.3 and 6.6 together in the same post or thread without saying anything, people will keep making erroneous conclusions we have to correct (assuming they don't just make those conclusions silently). I prefer we keep it as straight as possible.

Click to expand...

TomT said:

Just think of it as being up there with Nissan's 100 mile range claim...

Click to expand...

And the GOM...both of which we are constantly having newbies mistake for the real range, and end up correcting.

TomT said:

Just think of it as being up there with Nissan's 100 mile range claim...

Click to expand...

Both 100 mile and 6.6kW have some truth somewhere. Yes, the car can go 100 miles on the old EPA test and yes, there is 6.6kW pulled from the wall.

But, of course, comparing 3.3 to 6.6 is misleading, as is 100 miles for the average consumer. All good points above.

Will the change from 3.3 to 6.6 affect overall kWh usage? Or will it still average out about the same?

Assuming that they have not uprated the pumps for the new charger, the efficiency SHOULD be very slightly higher (due to the same parasitic loss) though I suspect it would statistically be insignificant...

mrwind said:

Will the change from 3.3 to 6.6 affect overall kWh usage? Or will it still average out about the same?

Click to expand...

I love the charging times chart in this thread. Can anyone tell me if that chart is for the 2013 Leaf, previous model years, or both (because it doesn't matter what year you have with regard to charging times.) Also, is there an online source for the data in that chart. Thanks. - Rick

rfelty said:

I love the charging times chart in this thread. Can anyone tell me if that chart is for the 2013 Leaf, previous model years, or both (because it doesn't matter what year you have with regard to charging times.) Also, is there an online source for the data in that chart. Thanks. - Rick

Click to expand...

No, it all came out of my brain. Just cut and paste this into a Word document and make a chart!!


LEAF Charge-Rate Chart
Assumes 30 amp pilot signal from EVSE


----------- Japan --- USA/Canada - The World --- USA/Canada
Amps --- 200 volts --- 208 volts --- 230 volts ------- 240volts

16 -------- 3.2kW -------- 3.3kW ---- 3.7kW ------ 3.8kW
27.5 ------ 5.5kW** ------ 5.7kW** --- 6.3kW ------ 6.6kW


Obviously, the charger will output some value below those stated above, at about 85-90%. So, a typical LEAF drawing 16 amps at your North American house's 240 volts will put 3.3kW into the battery, and draw 3.8kW from the wall.

The new 2013 LEAF with optional 27.5 amp charger will be about 6.6kW at 240 volts. The 2013 LEAF-S retains the 16 amp charger of all previous LEAFs.

**I don't know if its been measured at 200 or 208 volts yet to see if it increases to 30 amps.**

**********************************************************************

Nissan LEAF Miles Gained per Hour Charging


Amps/Volts -- Where ---- 65mph / 4 miles per kWh consumption rate

12 / 120 ------- Any ------ 4.0 miles (supplied cable with car in USA/Canada)
12 / 208 ------ Public ----- 8.4 miles (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)
12 / 240 ------ Home ----- 9.6 miles (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)
16 / 208 ------ Public ----- 11.1 miles (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)****
16 / 240 ------ Home ----- 12.9 miles (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)
20 / 208 ------ Public ----- 14.1 miles (Clipper Creek LCS-25)
20 / 240 ------ Home ----- 16.3 miles (Clipper Creek LCS-25)
25 / 208 ------ Public ----- 17.8 miles (EVSEupgrade.com 2013 LEAF)
25 / 240 ------ Home ----- 20.6 miles (EVSEupgrade.com 2013 LEAF)
30 / 208 ------ Public ----- 21.4 miles (unverified at 30 amps**)
30 / 240 ------ Home ----- 22.7 miles (limited to 27.5 amps)


**** will likely pull 18 amps at 208 volts****

**I don't know if its been measured at 200 or 208 volts yet to see if it increases to 30 amps.**


**********************************************************************


Nissan LEAF hours to charge LEAF with warm new condition battery
From Turtle mode ("dead") to 100%


Amps/Volts -- Where ---- Time

12 / 120 ------- Any ------ 22.8 hours (supplied cable with car in USA/Canada)
12 / 208 ------ Public ----- 11.4 hours (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)
12 / 240 ------ Home ------ 9.9 hours (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)
16 / 208 ------ Public ------ 8.6 hours (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)****
16 / 240 ------ Home ------ 7.4 hours (EVSEupgrade.com 2011/12 LEAF)
20 / 208 ------ Public ------ 6.7 hours (Clipper Creek LCS-25)
20 / 240 ------ Home ------ 5.9 hours (Clipper Creek LCS-25)
25 / 208 ------ Public ------ 5.4 hours (EVSEupgrade.com 2013 LEAF)
25 / 240 ------ Home ------ 4.7 hours (EVSEupgrade.com 2013 LEAF)
30 / 208 ------ Public ------ 4.5 hours (unverified at 30 amps**)
30 / 240 ------ Home ------ 4.2 hours (limited to 27.5 amps)


**** will likely pull 18 amps at 208 volts****

**I don't know if its been measured at 200 or 208 volts yet to see if it increases to 30 amps.**

evnow said:

hara said:

I'm looking for ballpark numbers on charging times. My 2013 Leaf S has the 3.3 kW on-board charger and I saw that I can upgrade to 6.6 kW.

Click to expand...

Can you actually upgrade to 6 kW (not 6.6, BTW) after buying S ? I thought the charger upgrade was a factory installed option.

Click to expand...

It is a factory option, and I would highly recommend it to any new LEAF buyer. The peace of mind and added versatility faster level 2 charging adds is well worth the extra expense IMHO. The OP might want to peruse this thread created by a new owner recently.