VenatorFox
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:30 am
Delivery Date: 18 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 019355
Location: Kearney, NE

Re: New purchase, Normal Dash Range?

Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:34 pm

cwerdna wrote:
powersurge wrote: This car showing a 35 mile range at 100% is just plain wrong... I would be interested in seeing what the next screen says about state of charge %.....
% SoC screen on '13+ Leafs tells you nothing about the battery condition. You could have a very degraded battery and it's still going to read 100% at full charge.
powersurge wrote: Go to a Nissan Dealer IMMEDIATELY and have a Leaf-trained technician do the "yearly battery check". Don't waste time with any experimenting!!
Why? The report by itself is pretty useless to the customer.
VenatorFox wrote: I also don't have a screen with %. I might running older software.
Correct. % state of charge didn't come until 2013 model year. All '11 and '12 Leafs only have the crap GOM, the fuel bars on the right + charging time estimates.
Valdemar wrote:Do you know where the car was sold the 1st time and where it spent most of its time?
OP, can you please respond to this?

We're trying to figure out if it resided in a hot climate (e.g. Phoenix, Vegas, Texas, etc.) or a milder one or somewhere in between. The hot climates will rapidly degrade a '12 Leaf's battery and there's NO way a '12 from a hot climate on its original battery will still have all 12 capacity bars, unless someone reset the BMS/battery capacity display. (For reference, from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=228326, when the Leaf had only been out ~21 months, 1 Phoenician Leaf was down FOUR capacity bars.)

If I were in your shoes and there's some law that mandates (or some sort of dealer guarantee) that you can still return the car at this time, do it now. Figure things out later and buy it back if it somehow tends to end up checking out.
Okay, I'll take it back tomorrow and ask them if I can return it. I'm pretty sure I can't since I signed. I purchased it 5 days ago. The range has not been improving. If the battery health is truly only 42.33% (Am I reading that right? Hx?), then its not going to work out at all. They told me the battery was fine. They told me GOM was ~80 miles when they last fully charged it. The car was originally in Denver, CO. I'm driving it around in Kearney, NE.

Firetruck41
Posts: 503
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:36 am
Leaf Number: 408264
Location: SW Washington State

Re: New purchase, Normal Dash Range?

Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:41 pm

SOH is the the one that reflects capacity, it is at 63%, this should qualify you for a new battery if you are under 5 years and 60k miles... once it is actually indicated on the dash, which apparently can take months after a reset...

On the other hand you have a quantifiable reason to try to return the car, as it was sold to you with the battery capacity meter altered from actual (whether they knew it or not is up for debate). I would take a single video of your car dash gauges, a newspaper (for the date), and then the display of the app screens (close enough to be able to read them and the VIN), in the case you need some evidence for the future.
Last edited by Firetruck41 on Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
8/2015- New to me 12bar 2013 SV w/QC package and 37k miles

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2630
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: New purchase, Normal Dash Range?

Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:44 pm

I suspect you will lose capacity bars rapidly if you keep driving it because the AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers look like my 2011 with 8 capacity bars before Nissan replaced the battery. You may qualify for a new battery if you drive it enough to get the bars to disappear. We really need the screen shots with a a deeply discharged battery and fully charged battery to verify that you do not have some weak cells. There is another thread from several months ago for someone who bought a car with 12 capacity bars and the bars dropped quickly (so capacity bar display had been improperly reset). If you can return the car for a full refund, that might be best unless you want to deal with fighting for a warranty replacement of the battery.

Gerry
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

VenatorFox
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:30 am
Delivery Date: 18 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 019355
Location: Kearney, NE

Re: New purchase, Normal Dash Range?

Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:52 pm

GerryAZ wrote:I suspect you will lose capacity bars rapidly if you keep driving it because the AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers look like my 2011 with 8 capacity bars before Nissan replaced the battery. You may qualify for a new battery if you drive it enough to get the bars to disappear. We really need the screen shots with a a deeply discharged battery and fully charged battery to verify that you do not have some weak cells. There is another thread from several months ago for someone who bought a car with 12 capacity bars and the bars dropped quickly (so capacity bar display had been improperly reset). If you can return the car for a full refund, that might be best unless you want to deal with fighting for a warranty replacement of the battery.

Gerry
Okay, Ill drive it until GOM displays dashes, and get LeafSpy screenshots.
Ill then override the 80% to get it to charge to 100%, and get screenshots. It will only take 13 hours to charge, according to the car.

If the car was eligible for warranty, why would someone reset the bars? Does that void Nissan's warranty?

cwerdna
Posts: 11310
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: New purchase, Normal Dash Range?

Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:02 pm

^^^
You can tell us the Ahr, SOH and Hx numbers now w/o fully charging the car. It shouldn't matter. You will see those numbers vary a little bit and it seems we've learned that long trips improve SOH and/or Hx, a bit. It might improve a bit with a 100% charge or two...

IIRC, I've seen SOH and Hx values vary between ~89% and ~91% in the time I've owned my used '13 Leaf (was a lease return). I've owned it since mid-July 2015. Its build date was 5/2013 and its first in-service date was late 6/2013.

I had an in-person conversation w/Turbo3 (author of Leaf Spy, who has an '11 IIRC) a few weeks ago and he mentioned that the delta of cell voltages between the highest and lowest voltage (mV) gets really high (hundreds of millivolts) as the battery's near dead (low SoC). He mentioned he uses that as an aid to determine how close he is to running out.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 11310
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: New purchase, Normal Dash Range?

Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:07 pm

GerryAZ wrote: We really need the screen shots with a a deeply discharged battery and fully charged battery to verify that you do not have some weak cells.
Yep.
GerryAZ wrote:
There is another thread from several months ago for someone who bought a car with 12 capacity bars and the bars dropped quickly (so capacity bar display had been improperly reset). If you can return the car for a full refund, that might be best unless you want to deal with fighting for a warranty replacement of the battery.
There has been more than 1, IIRC. Here's 1: http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/11 ... -read.html and http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/12 ... olved.html. The latter also shows the crap battery report sheet.

Well, re: fighting... as long as the car's goes back to being a 4+ capacity bar loser BEFORE the 5 year/60K mile mark, OP should be able to get a replacement. The moment it hits 4 bars, if you're close to either mark, stop immediately and have it towed to the dealer. Do NOT let it pass either mark if you get down to 4+ CBs lost.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

dm33
Posts: 690
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 4:43 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: New purchase, Normal Dash Range?

Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:12 pm

VenatorFox wrote:
GerryAZ wrote: If the car was eligible for warranty, why would someone reset the bars? Does that void Nissan's warranty?
To deceive an unsuspecting buyer so that they could unload it.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2630
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: New purchase, Normal Dash Range?

Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:32 pm

dm33 wrote: To deceive an unsuspecting buyer so that they could unload it.
VenatorFox asked why someone would reset it. A couple more possibilities: Unscrupulous used car dealer did not know about retroactive capacity warranty for 2011 and 2012 models or original owner opted out of the class action suit and warranty coverage is questionable.

This is one of the reasons we need to check for weak cells because weak cells are covered for 8 years or 100,000 miles regardless of the capacity warranty status.

Gerry
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

VenatorFox
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:30 am
Delivery Date: 18 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 019355
Location: Kearney, NE

Re: New purchase, Normal Dash Range?

Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:37 pm

dm33 wrote:
VenatorFox wrote:
GerryAZ wrote: If the car was eligible for warranty, why would someone reset the bars? Does that void Nissan's warranty?
To deceive an unsuspecting buyer so that they could unload it.
Since someone reset it, I would need to drive the car until the bars disappear again to become re-eligible for warranty, is that correct?
According to that article it would take a few months for it to "undo" the reset as it re-calibrates.

I think I'm just going to take it back to the dealer tomorrow with these findings.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2630
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: New purchase, Normal Dash Range?

Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:51 pm

You are correct--to get coverage under the capacity warranty requires the capacity bar display to be down to 8 or fewer bars showing. The defect warranty which would apply to weak cells does not require the loss of capacity bars. If there is some record of the capacity bar reset, you might have a chance to get a replacement battery without waiting for the bars to drop. Still, your best course of action might be to return it and let the selling dealer address the issue.

Good luck,
Gerry
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

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