TreeStar
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:38 pm
Delivery Date: 29 May 2017
Location: Oregon City, Oregon

Leaf or Prius?

Sun May 28, 2017 7:58 pm

I've been researching the 2017 versions of these cars quite a bit lately. The Leaf has absolutely amazing rebates right now. To the tune of $15,000+. Anyone know why that is? My Toyota guy says it's because they can't sell them, but I don't think that's the case. Regardless, that makes an affordable car affordable for me. The other part of it that makes it affordable is the cheaper fuel. Although I think it would be around the same cost based on my averages.

I drive an average of 800 miles a month (based on the last 17 months). Based on that with an assumed fuel price of $2.65 /gallon I pay $88/ month for fuel.

We pay 5.9 cents per kWh here (which I think is on the lower side due to source). Is there a way to calculate what I would pay for electricity based on 800 miles /month? Also worth noting is the free public charging for 2 years (1 hour per day).

My Toyota guy is obviously wanting me to go that route and brings up range and vehicle size. A Prius is a nice sized car, but the fuel economy would be around double what I currently get. That would mean around $44 /month in fuel. The payments on that would be $143 /month (but that was calculated with $5,000 down).

I own my current car which is worth about $5,000. I'm hung up on the point that if I do a $6,000 down payment (trade and cash) and lease a car for 3 years my payments would be $151.05 /month. In reality they would be $317.71 due to the down payment. A 24 month loan makes my payments $104.27 /month. The residual value on the car after 36 months is $8,713 and $11,395 with 24 month. I could obviously finance that if I choose or turn the car in for something else.


My goal is to have low monthly expenses. The environmental impact part of it is also something I obviously take into account. I do like the "novelty" of having a full EV especially considering I have a degree in renewable energy. What have you guys experienced? I've been told most people lease these cars.

alozzy
Posts: 1405
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sun May 28, 2017 8:12 pm

Conservatively, you should average 4 miles per kWh of battery capacity for most of the year. Depending on where you live, you'll likely get worse than that during winter months.

So, for sake of argument, 800 miles would require about 200 kWh of energy. At $0.06/kWh, that's $12 per month for electricity. During winter, $18 per month would be a good budget number.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
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BranchingOut
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Apr 2017

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sun May 28, 2017 8:16 pm

TreeStar wrote:I've been researching the 2017 versions of these cars quite a bit lately. The Leaf has absolutely amazing rebates right now. To the tune of $15,000+. Anyone know why that is? My Toyota guy says it's because they can't sell them, but I don't think that's the case.
Current inventory and impending release of the 2018 refresh? Apparently Nissan was going to release a 2016/2017 with 40kWh battery but in light of the Bolt, Tesla 3 and what not, they decided to release a 60kWh for a 200-240 mile range. This delayed their refresh and possibly we have excess inventory of 2016-2017 LEAFs.
I drive an average of 800 miles a month (based on the last 17 months). Based on that with an assumed fuel price of $2.65 /gallon I pay $88/ month for fuel.
We pay 5.9 cents per kWh here (which I think is on the lower side due to source). Is there a way to calculate what I would pay for electricity based on 800 miles /month? Also worth noting is the free public charging for 2 years (1 hour per day).

My Toyota guy is obviously wanting me to go that route and brings up range and vehicle size. A Prius is a nice sized car, but the fuel economy would be around double what I currently get. That would mean around $44 /month in fuel. The payments on that would be $143 /month (but that was calculated with $5,000 down).
With a hybrid, your options open up considerably. There's also the Bolt. It drives better, has better range and despite a very cheap interior, is the better electric car at the moment.
I own my current car which is worth about $5,000. I'm hung up on the point that if I do a $6,000 down payment (trade and cash) and lease a car for 3 years my payments would be $151.05 /month. In reality they would be $317.71 due to the down payment. A 24 month loan makes my payments $104.27 /month. The residual value on the car after 36 months is $8,713 and $11,395 with 24 month. I could obviously finance that if I choose or turn the car in for something else.
I subscribe to the 0 down lease for if a car should get written off from irreparable damage, I'm not out of $. However, there's also the "keep the monthly payment down in case of lease extension" school of thought. With the 2018 Leaf scheduled to be released soon, I'd look at a two year lease if I were you.
My goal is to have low monthly expenses. The environmental impact part of it is also something I obviously take into account. I do like the "novelty" of having a full EV especially considering I have a degree in renewable energy. What have you guys experienced? I've been told most people lease these cars.
My preference would be to lease these cars new or buy used for cheap. I don't see them as cars as much as they are technology on wheels. I've leased my current Leaf and will be curious what'll happen two years from now. We'll definitely have more options.

TreeStar
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:38 pm
Delivery Date: 29 May 2017
Location: Oregon City, Oregon

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sun May 28, 2017 8:39 pm

alozzy wrote:Conservatively, you should average 4 miles per kWh of battery capacity for most of the year. Depending on where you live, you'll likely get worse than that during winter months.

So, for sake of argument, 800 miles would require about 200 kWh of energy. At $0.06/kWh, that's $12 per month for electricity. During winter, $18 per month would be a good budget number.
Hahahahaha. That's nutty. The sticker on the car says estimated $600 /year fuel cost. The guys at the dealer told me they hear $30-$40 /month.

I wasn't aware I was driving so little in comparison to others.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13430
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sun May 28, 2017 8:54 pm

If you want a useful answer to your question, you have to tell us how far you drive a day at most, and under what circumstances (freeway, highway, local streets) and your location, so we know what your climate is like.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9807
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sun May 28, 2017 8:59 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:If you want a useful answer to your question, you have to tell us how far you drive a day at most, and under what circumstances (freeway, highway, local streets) and your location, so we know what your climate is like.
Yep.

OP: Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

As for 5.9 cents per kWh, have a link to the residential rate schedule for your utility? I suspect you're leaving off various bundled in charges/fees that you have to pay (e.g. distribution, transmission).

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
Posts: 1405
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sun May 28, 2017 10:17 pm

Your stated rate of 5.9 cents per kWh is partly why it's so cheap - most people pay at least double that rate. 800 miles per month isn't very much.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

User avatar
IssacZachary
Posts: 881
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sun May 28, 2017 10:55 pm

A gallon of gasoline contains about 33kWh. So at 5.9¢ you're paying about $1.95 per "gallon" for a car that gets over 100 "electric-MPG". The USA national average is around 11¢ per kWh I do believe, or about $3.63 per electric "gallon." That's still cheap considering the mileage.

Add to that that many charging stations are still free. So you either pay $1.95 per electric "gallon" or $0 per electric "gallon." Of course there are ones that do charge and can be quite expensive considering the amount of "fuel" they give you.

But in the end it's more about how and where you drive. You can only drive a Leaf so far on a charge, normally less than 100 miles, and it usually takes hours to "fill" back up. Add to that the deficient charging infrastructure. Would that cause problems with your lifestyle? What gets most people is that they are used to the internal combustion engine that you can fill up and go for miles on end. The Leaf takes some lifestyle adapting. For some that's not hard to do. For others it's the reason they would never consider an electric car.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CURRENT

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Sun May 28, 2017 11:04 pm

I own a LEAF I bought used for $8300 in January
and a Prius Prime + I bought new in March for $25,500 (before TTL, state and federal tax credits)

For my household the LEAF is a fantastic second car. If I only owned one car it would be a Prius Prime.

If you really want to keep your monthly costs down, but a used car and remove collision insurance.
I pay $15 a month for our LEAF
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

jjeff
Posts: 1981
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Mon May 29, 2017 5:09 am

I don't think you said what kind of Prius you were looking at, but if it were a Prime and your trips were generally ~20 miles, you may be able to get by with very little fuel, but still have the advantage of being able to drive on long trips.
If I were to only have one vehicle it would probably be a Prime, for a 2 or more vehicle person/family the Leaf really makes sense for 95% of your trips, up to 70 or so miles summer, as low as 40 miles in 0 or sub zero F temps.
Not as sure about the newer Prius's but the older ones have much more storage in the rear than a Leaf. I can haul things in our Prius that I could never in the Leaf, although I prefer the passenger comfort and general driveability of the Leaf, not a huge fan of CVTs.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
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