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IssacZachary
Posts: 881
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Mon May 29, 2017 8:50 pm

Sorry for my long write-ups.

I think the pricing is too close to say one is better than the other. Buying new, a Prius might be cheaper. Buying used, a Leaf might be cheaper. But in the end they're too close to be able to say that it really will be that way. A new Leaf could be cheaper than a new Prius and a used Prius could end up being cheaper than a used Leaf. There numbers are just too close.

The main thing is use and your personal preferences. Have you test driven either? Do you want a car that can go on long trips nonstop or do you like stopping and charging along the way?
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CURRENT

TreeStar
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:38 pm
Delivery Date: 29 May 2017
Location: Oregon City, Oregon

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Mon May 29, 2017 8:57 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:The warranty you reference is against manufacturing defects, not "normal" degradation.
Sure, but how many batteries have gone bad? The technology is fairy tried/tested/true by this point, yeah?

LeftieBiker
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Posts: 13443
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Mon May 29, 2017 9:13 pm

TreeStar wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:The warranty you reference is against manufacturing defects, not "normal" degradation.
Sure, but how many batteries have gone bad? The technology is fairy tried/tested/true by this point, yeah?
You'd think so, but 2016 30kwh packs are not holding up well.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9811
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Mon May 29, 2017 9:23 pm

TreeStar wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:The warranty you reference is against manufacturing defects, not "normal" degradation.
Sure, but how many batteries have gone bad? The technology is fairy tried/tested/true by this point, yeah?
I can't think of any, other than a few with bad cells, which had the individual bad cells replaced.

The problem is the degradation, esp. from heat. Seems like the 4/2013+ build date '13 and '14 Leafs along w/'15 model year "lizard" battery are holding up better than the crap '11 and '12 ones (and those from before 4/2013).

But as Leftie mentions, the signs are not looking good for the '16 30 kWh batteries in terms of degradation. Unclear if those folks have defective batteries or it's a general issue for those 30 kWh packs. Unclear if Nissan has revised the 30 kWh packs in any way.

There have been plenty of batteries from before model year 2016 that have been replaced for degradation. Some were replaced at no cost under the capacity warranty, some had Nissan cover some/most of the cost and a small set of people paid full price.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Dooglas
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:08 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 314779
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Mon May 29, 2017 10:02 pm

It should be noted that the OP lives in Portland, OR. No place in the country experiences better LEAF battery longevity than Portland. The mild climate is easy on the battery and also means you use climate control less than most other places. My '13 showed 12 bars thru 3 years of use and my '16 is so far doing just fine.

BTW, we are a 2 car family. We own a LEAF and a Prius. We use the LEAF for the majority of our driving as it works so well around town and is even more economical to operate than the Prius. A trip to Ashland coming up next week. We will take the Prius. ;)
2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30 - purchased

alozzy
Posts: 1405
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Mon May 29, 2017 10:56 pm

If I was in the OPs shoes, I would buy a 2013 S + QC, for less than $9k, that spent its entire life in the PNW. Here are some good examples:

http://www.paramountmotorsnw.com/invent ... By=adprice

His payments on a 5 year loan would be <$150 per month, assuming a small down payment.

Most of the depreciation has already been realized on a 4 year old Leaf, so residual value after 5 years might be $2500. If he buys a 2013 S + QC with 25K miles on it, he'll add about 35k miles over 5 years. For perspective, my PNW 2013 SV has over 50k miles on it and still has an SOH of 91%. He'll probably still have 11 bars after 5 years.

Basically, the car costs him a little over $100 per month BEFORE adjusting for any savings on gas. Given his limited miles and low $/kWh electricity rates, his electricity costs will be less than $15 a month.

For his situation, buying a used Leaf is a no brainer AFAIK. Very similar to my own.

Once the loan is paid off, his only significant cost is to insure it, assuming no unexpected repair bills of course, and a car that old wouldn't be worth putting collision coverage on it - so even insurance will be cheap.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
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TreeStar
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:38 pm
Delivery Date: 29 May 2017
Location: Oregon City, Oregon

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Tue May 30, 2017 6:21 am

alozzy wrote:If I was in the OPs shoes, I would buy a 2013 S + QC, for less than $9k, that spent its entire life in the PNW. Here are some good examples:

http://www.paramountmotorsnw.com/invent ... By=adprice

His payments on a 5 year loan would be <$150 per month, assuming a small down payment.

Most of the depreciation has already been realized on a 4 year old Leaf, so residual value after 5 years might be $2500. If he buys a 2013 S + QC with 25K miles on it, he'll add about 35k miles over 5 years. For perspective, my PNW 2013 SV has over 50k miles on it and still has an SOH of 91%. He'll probably still have 11 bars after 5 years.

Basically, the car costs him a little over $100 per month BEFORE adjusting for any savings on gas. Given his limited miles and low $/kWh electricity rates, his electricity costs will be less than $15 a month.

For his situation, buying a used Leaf is a no brainer AFAIK. Very similar to my own.

Once the loan is paid off, his only significant cost is to insure it, assuming no unexpected repair bills of course, and a car that old wouldn't be worth putting collision coverage on it - so even insurance will be cheap.

I've thought about that.... But the range. I would want something as a backup to a Leaf. I'm already questioning the ability to be able to drive to Eugene with out a "fill up".

Most of my driving is local though.

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IssacZachary
Posts: 881
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Tue May 30, 2017 7:49 am

TreeStar wrote:
alozzy wrote:If I was in the OPs shoes, I would buy a 2013 S + QC, for less than $9k, that spent its entire life in the PNW. Here are some good examples:

http://www.paramountmotorsnw.com/invent ... By=adprice

His payments on a 5 year loan would be <$150 per month, assuming a small down payment.

Most of the depreciation has already been realized on a 4 year old Leaf, so residual value after 5 years might be $2500. If he buys a 2013 S + QC with 25K miles on it, he'll add about 35k miles over 5 years. For perspective, my PNW 2013 SV has over 50k miles on it and still has an SOH of 91%. He'll probably still have 11 bars after 5 years.

Basically, the car costs him a little over $100 per month BEFORE adjusting for any savings on gas. Given his limited miles and low $/kWh electricity rates, his electricity costs will be less than $15 a month.

For his situation, buying a used Leaf is a no brainer AFAIK. Very similar to my own.

Once the loan is paid off, his only significant cost is to insure it, assuming no unexpected repair bills of course, and a car that old wouldn't be worth putting collision coverage on it - so even insurance will be cheap.

I've thought about that.... But the range. I would want something as a backup to a Leaf. I'm already questioning the ability to be able to drive to Eugene with out a "fill up".

Most of my driving is local though.
I bought my Leaf because I knew it would cover most of my driving needs. For those occasional trips that make the Leaf impractical for your situation do you have any alternatives? Could you rent, take a bus, borrow a car, etc? Or could you just take your time and charge along the way?

I've done a 380 mile round trip in a single two day weekend using only L1 (120V/21hour) and L2 (240V/4hour) charging. Have you looked at PlugShare.com to see where charging stations are? If you have CHAdeMO stations and get a Leaf with CHAdeMO you could be set!

This is like "pickup syndrome." Some people go buy a pickup truck because they know that some day they might need to haul something big. But in the end it would have been much more practical to have bought a car and then have rented a moving van those few times they needed to haul something large. But if you need to haul something large every day or even once every week, well then maybe you need a pickup. Likewise if you need to drive hundreds of miles every day or even just once every week, then maybe you need a car with an internal combustion engine.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CURRENT

alozzy
Posts: 1405
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Tue May 30, 2017 8:20 am

To the OP, Oregon is one of the best states in the USA for charging infrastructure, it really doesn't get much better.

If you purchased an S + QC, you could charge to 100%, drive for 50 to 60 miles, then QC for 30 minutes - repeat as needed. For Eugenie to Portland, at least two times, three more likely. We do this whenever we visit Whistler in our Leaf, but I'm fine with that.

It sounds like you aren't prepared to do that, so you honestly don't have the necessary mindset to be a content Leaf owner. Sounds harsh, but you'll just end up resenting the car, despite how amazing a deal a used Leaf would be for you.

FWIW, a Chevy Bolt would likely do Eugenie to Portland on a single charge.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

jakepeters
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:29 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Nov 2016

Re: Leaf or Prius?

Tue May 30, 2017 11:14 am

alozzy wrote:If I was in the OPs shoes, I would buy a 2013 S + QC, for less than $9k, that spent its entire life in the PNW. Here are some good examples:

http://www.paramountmotorsnw.com/invent ... By=adprice

His payments on a 5 year loan would be <$150 per month, assuming a small down payment.

Most of the depreciation has already been realized on a 4 year old Leaf, so residual value after 5 years might be $2500. If he buys a 2013 S + QC with 25K miles on it, he'll add about 35k miles over 5 years. For perspective, my PNW 2013 SV has over 50k miles on it and still has an SOH of 91%. He'll probably still have 11 bars after 5 years.

Basically, the car costs him a little over $100 per month BEFORE adjusting for any savings on gas. Given his limited miles and low $/kWh electricity rates, his electricity costs will be less than $15 a month.

For his situation, buying a used Leaf is a no brainer AFAIK. Very similar to my own.

Once the loan is paid off, his only significant cost is to insure it, assuming no unexpected repair bills of course, and a car that old wouldn't be worth putting collision coverage on it - so even insurance will be cheap.
I live in the Seattle area and have been watching the inventory at Paramount Motors NW for several months, on and off.

Note that you can find out where the car was originally shipped to by clicking on the Carfax report of each car's listing page.

I haven't looked at each car on the site lately, but IME, I have not seen a car from the PNW, but mostly California and some from Georgia (less now that the GA tax rebate ended >2 years ago, IIRC), Arizona, others.

This doesn't mean that they aren't worth buying, but note the majority of Leafs I've perused at Paramount are not from the PNW.

JP

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