SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:19 am

edatoakrun wrote: From AVTA test results, it looks like the liquid cooled Tesla packs in the B class BEVs, on average ... suffered ~6% pack degradation over one year and ~12k miles.


http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-batt ... tion-data/ is much better data
We know that battery packs start out with capacities that are +/- about 2% of rated so the first year loss of range is hard to interpret. From about 10k km onward the degradation is around 0.3% per 10k km. And keep in mind that these cars are DC fast charged in excess of 100 kW.

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Last edited by SageBrush on Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:33 am

SageBrush wrote:
edatoakrun wrote: From AVTA test results, it looks like the liquid cooled Tesla packs in the B class BEVs, on average ... suffered ~6% pack degradation over one year and ~12k miles.


http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-batt ... tion-data/ is much better data...]

"Better data" because:

It's NOT even for the same model BEVs or, or even the same packs?

Or because It's a compilation of junk data, from Tesla's on-board BMS estimates, rather than from actual testing?
no condition is permanent

SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: NM

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:03 am

edatoakrun wrote: Or because It's a compilation of junk data, from Tesla's on-board BMS estimates, rather than from actual testing?
You are so FOS.

I'll take the on-board Tesla reports any day of the millenium over the LEAF bars.
In any case this data was not provided for you, since you have shown yourself to be either a Nissan shill, crazy troll or a disgruntled short. I just don't want other people to be influenced by your swill.

From the same website I found updated data through 8/2017 with hundreds of data points.
Executive summary: Average 8% capacity loss over 250k KM (155k miles)

Image
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Stoaty
Posts: 4487
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Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:34 pm

edatoakrun wrote:The B packs degradation rate is somewhat better than The LEAFs (or most all of the other BEVs tested) but how much of the improved retention of capacity was due to active cooling, and how much was due to the reduced number of charge/discharge cycles provided by the B's much larger packs (and also by limiting the drivers' access to a lower percentage of the total pack capacity ?) remains unknown.
Doesn't matter to me. If I have 250 miles rated range left on my 2013 Tesla (appears to be an accurate number based on driving so far) which had 65,000 miles on it at the time I bought it, the rest is meaningless. Also, while the Tesla may be less energy efficient, it takes a lot of energy to make a second (or third) battery pack for the Leaf.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

SageBrush
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Location: NM

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:47 pm

Stoaty wrote: Also, while the Tesla may be less energy efficient, it takes a lot of energy to make a second (or third) battery pack for the Leaf.
Be sure to include all the LEAFs that go to the junkyard in under 10 years or less because customers are not willing to pay the $7000 for a replacement pack. I'll leave it to the troll to figure out the wasted embedded energy
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:06 pm

Stoaty wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:The B packs degradation rate is somewhat better than The LEAFs (or most all of the other BEVs tested) but how much of the improved retention of capacity was due to active cooling, and how much was due to the reduced number of charge/discharge cycles provided by the B's much larger packs (and also by limiting the drivers' access to a lower percentage of the total pack capacity ?) remains unknown.
...while the Tesla may be less energy efficient, it takes a lot of energy to make a second (or third) battery pack for the Leaf.
If your LEAF is exceptionally long-lived, and you ever need to put a third ~24 kWh pack in it, you have likely produced about the same adverse environmental impacts of one ~72 kWh pack.

That's still significantly less than the adverse environmental effects from your Tesla's OE (~82 kWh, when new?) pack, though.

Of course, Nissan claims all their packs have second-life potential in stationary applications, while Tesla packs go to the junkyard when the rest of the car is disposed of.

I understand LEAF packs are the highest-priced component from a totaled car.

What's happening to the packs in all the Teslas in junkyards?
no condition is permanent

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:27 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
Stoaty wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:while Tesla packs go to the junkyard when the rest of the car is disposed of.
More BS. Where do you come up with this crap ?

https://www.tesla.com/blog/teslas-close ... ng-program
That was true in 2011. Complete recycling is planned for the Gigafactory, although it will take a decade before they have enough batteries to turn the process into a business. One of the downsides I guess to having an extra-ordinarily long lived battery.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14156
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:49 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Stoaty wrote: Also, while the Tesla may be less energy efficient, it takes a lot of energy to make a second (or third) battery pack for the Leaf.
Be sure to include all the LEAFs that go to the junkyard in under 10 years or less because customers are not willing to pay the $7000 for a replacement pack. I'll leave it to the troll to figure out the wasted embedded energy
well first off, no packs from any manufacturers are going to the junkyard and 2nd; who is paying $7000 for a LEAF pack? I can't find anyone paying anywhere near half that
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
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Nubo
Posts: 5399
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:05 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Stoaty wrote: Also, while the Tesla may be less energy efficient, it takes a lot of energy to make a second (or third) battery pack for the Leaf.
Be sure to include all the LEAFs that go to the junkyard in under 10 years or less because customers are not willing to pay the $7000 for a replacement pack. I'll leave it to the troll to figure out the wasted embedded energy
Can we do without the name-calling, and the "FOS" remarks?
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Battery temp management for new leaf

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:39 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote: I can't find anyone paying anywhere near half that
That is what I was telling you in your other thread.
You are self-selecting for people who have agreed to the replacement cost.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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