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2012 Leeaf - Need help with some data

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:11 am
by bda0009
I need help interpreting some data.

I bought a used 2012 Leaf in June 2017 with 40k miles, but the battery had been replaced in December 2016 by the dealer at 35k. It now has 44k miles and still 12 bars. My normal driving consists of take a series of short trips, like 5 miles to work, but also includes a steep hill to get home. Tires are at 40 psi and I drive very conservatively. I was charging overnight at home with 110 current, but recently am able to charge at work with 220. It is warm here in Honolulu, but relatively cool where I live, and where I park during the day is covered parking, so temperatures in the 70s and 80s.

According to my LeafSpy, the SOH is 91.43% and Hx is 79.31%. Are these numbers unusual with a relatively new battery? I knew I would lose some % each year, but that is almost 9% over a year and a quarter, and with the newer, upgraded battery type (I think/hope). Does battery degradation accelerate, or what can I expect?
My other question is that according to the dash instruments, I get 4.5 Miles/KWh. But when I do this calculation myself I get a lower number, like 14 KWh having driven 56 miles or 3.9 miles/KWh. Should those 2 numbers be closer?

I really like the car, but it feels like I am charging more often that I should. After a full charge it says around 100 miles, but 56 miles later I am at 3 bars.

Thanks for any feedback.

Re: 2012 Leeaf - Need help with some data

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:26 pm
by LeftieBiker
How many miles are you driving per day? If you can charge every other day, that may help. It's not unusual for there to be a drop in SOH while fairly new, but your battery should be a "Lizard" pack, and should do a little better. Is it already Hot there?

Re: 2012 Leeaf - Need help with some data

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:14 pm
by bda0009
I probably average about 15 miles per day, charge 2 or 3 times per week. When I charged at home I was charging to 80%, but then I read that the 220 current was better on the battery and it was a good thing to go to 100%. That seems to help a little, but my main concern is that I have an effective range of 60 miles now with a pretty new battery and what I thought would be useful for 5+years is looking like a lot less time. Temperatures in the 70s and 80s – warm but I would not say hot.

Re: 2012 Leeaf - Need help with some data

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:34 pm
by LeftieBiker
If the nights stay warm that's the likely problem: the pack stays too warm. Charging to 80% is better; just do 100% as needed to keep the pack balanced. 120 volt charging is fine. There might be a little more cumulative heat from it, or there might not - the jury is still out on that. I don't suppose you have a garage that you could cool to 65F or so at night...?

Re: 2012 Leeaf - Need help with some data

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:01 pm
by GerryAZ
Several things to consider:

1. What tires do you have? The tires have likely been replaced since the car has 44k miles. Range will be reduced with any tires other than Bridgestone Ecopias inflated to 44 psi. How much depends upon the tires and inflation pressure.

2. It is normal for the miles/kWh display in 2011 and 2012 models to indicate much higher than actual efficiency. I measure charging power from the wall with a revenue accuracy meter ahead of my AeroVironment L2 EVSE (30 amperes output). The 2011 would routinely display 4.0 miles/kWh with my typical driving, but calculated wall-to-wheels efficiency would be about 3.0 mi/kWh with L2 charging and even lower with L1 (120-volt) charging. The miles/kWh display on the 2015 is more accurate.

3. I think your battery is doing fine and will last a long time with your daily driving needs. The difference between the LEAF Spy numbers for SOH and Hx indicate to me that you do have a "Lizard" battery. The numbers were closer to the same as the older chemistry cells deteriorated. The first bar dropped on my 2011 at about 13 months for both the original battery and the replacement (original chemistry from Japan). The second bar dropped about a month later on the original battery, but the car met its demise before the second bar dropped on the replacement. It was almost 2 years when the first bar dropped on my 2015 and a year after that when the second bar dropped. According to information read from the CAN Bus via LEAF Spy and other tools, the 2015 battery has more remaining capacity after 37 months and 57,000 miles than the 2011 had after 15 months and 14,500 miles when the data was read the morning of the Phoenix Range Test (September 15, 2012--car identified as Silver 679). The lower LEAF Spy numbers you see compared to what others post is likely due to your gentle driving and slow charging. The LEAF Spy numbers on my 2015 drop if I drive gently on surface streets and charge at lower current. The numbers increase back to where they were when I return to my normal driving pattern. The numbers also increase for a while after quick charging from very low battery warning (VLBW) to full.

4. The 2011 and 2012 models have some nice features that are missing on the later cars (adjustable headlights, electric parking brake, non-leather interior on SL, etc.). Enjoy your car and don't worry too much about your battery.

Re: 2012 Leeaf - Need help with some data

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:51 am
by powersurge
Overall, don't worry.

You got the new battery almost 1 1/2 years ago. That replacement battery may have been in storage for one, or two years.... While holding its charge. So, 91% SOH is within reason, and will stay strong for a long time. I don't think that you had 100% SOH when the battery was installed... That would have been the time to complain.

Also, why do you need more precise measurements of how many miles per kilowatt you are getting than by using the dash display? Your other calculations will never be exact... And it really don't matter... 4.5 miles per kilowatt is great..

Don't worry
Be happy

Re: 2012 Leeaf - Need help with some data

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:33 am
by bda0009
I would like to re-visit this thread with some more information. I took the advise of those that responded and just enjoyed the car and tried not to obsess about the state of the battery. But I noticed that from March 2018 to September 2018 the SOH was stable at around 90-91%. Then the last few months I have lost almost 1% per month - now down to 86.9%. I have not changed anything about my driving and the weather is pretty constant here in Honolulu. I admit that I drive like a grandpa, but driving more aggressively does not seem to change to make things better.

Is this normal? I am also wondering if I should sell it while I still have 12 bars, if it continues to fall at this rate. Thanks.

Re: 2012 Leeaf - Need help with some data

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:54 am
by powersurge
I happened to see your post again... Look, I imagine you got a good deal on the car as a used car. When you bought it, I imagine you knew that the battery depletes itself over time.

In Hawaii, you really don't drive long distances so even with a lowered capacity battery, you have a useful car. You can keep a gas powered car for 20+ years, but unfortunately, the electric battery has limited life span. I am sure you will be able to use yours for a good 3-5 years more and then you will eventually need to decide what to do.

If you cannot accept that the car is getting old (like all of us), get a gas car that you can keep for decades....

Re: 2012 Leeaf - Need help with some data

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:20 pm
by LeftieBiker
I think that the lack of cool nights, plus frequent warm days, is aging the pack too fast. The "Lizard" pack is more heat-resistant than the other versions, but if it's wilting in the heat you need to look at how much range in the least you need, and estimate when, at the current rate, you will fall below that number.