Getting a Leaf, looking for advice between S and SV

I am hoping to get some wisdom from people who own a Leaf in cold climates and if the upgrade to an SV is worth it. I live in Atlantic Canada so not usually very cold winters, the car would be parked in a heated attached garage and no one commutes to work. My wife takes the bus to work because she hates driving and I am disabled so I really only drive to my appointments, go shopping or take the dog somewhere to walk. We probably drive 600 kms a month, the longest trip we would make is 90km away and there is a DC fast charger there. Any further and we would use a gas car or fly and I will be getting a membership with a local car share for the gas car.

So I cant decide if an SV is worth the upgrade over an S for me. Preheating with the app would be neat but I am never in a rush so if you can activate preheating in the car I can just do it myself. Navigation is a plus but I could always use my phone and its a city car so I almost never need it. The big thing for me is the heat pump vs resistive but now that I have typed all this out I am wondering if for me it will not be that big of a deal.

Looking on AutoTrader there is a lot of used S models with dc fast charging and only a few SV's. I may be able to get more off the price of an S than I would an SV and the S is already cheaper. What would any of you guys do in my situation knowing how your Leaf preforms in cold weather?

Thanks in advance, we are both looking forward to joining the EV community .

I wouldn't even consider an S, if for no other reason than the heat pump. I also think there's a lot of value in NissanConnectEV (even though some would disagree). Better to have it and not need it...than need it and not have it.
My 2 cents.

Stanton said:

I wouldn't even consider an S, if for no other reason than the heat pump. I also think there's a lot of value in NissanConnectEV (even though some would disagree). Better to have it and not need it...than need it and not have it.
My 2 cents.

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Yeah I was thinking that as well, it is much cheaper to buy it now. Thanks.

The problem with NissanConnect on an older LEAF is that the 2G TCU (cell radio unit) doesn't work and getting the upgrade done in Canada is almost impossible. Also, many many people have had issues with the "new" 3G TCUs.

Although the hybrid heater does save range, in your case you are doing short trips and not driving the car much anyways. So, range is seldom an issue.

Also, your savings over a gas powered car aren't going to be all that much. I hate to say it, but you might get better value from a gas car...

Of course, if you are making the switch because you want to reduce your carbon footprint then that's admirable.

FYI, my favorite features are: the steering wheel heater, the seat warmers front and back, and the infotainment display. Unfortunately, the NAV is so dated that it's seldom useful.

Mild Winters really showcase the heatpump, and the resale value in your climate would be higher with an SV. Having said that, if you really don't need the range, and just want a basic car (with heated seats and wheel!) then the S should work. You haven't made it clear, though, if you are talking about a used or new Leaf. If the latter, you can possibly (maybe not in Canada) get an SV with no heatpump (or heated seats or wheel) for less than one with with them. I wouldn't recommend one, but they are $1200 less...

alozzy said:

The problem with NissanConnect on an older LEAF is that the 2G TCU (cell radio unit) doesn't work and getting the upgrade done in Canada is almost impossible. Also, many many people have had issues with the "new" 3G TCUs.

Although the hybrid heater does save range, in your case you are doing short trips and not driving the car much anyways. So, range is seldom an issue.

Also, your savings over a gas powered car aren't going to be all that much. I hate to say it, but you might get better value from a gas car...

Of course, if you are making the switch because you want to reduce your carbon footprint then that's admirable.

FYI, my favorite features are: the steering wheel heater, the seat warmers front and back, and the infotainment display. Unfortunately, the NAV is so dated that it's seldom useful.

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The only reason our gas bill is high right now is I have a VW golf wagon with the 2.5L, averages about 13L/100km in the winter with all city driving. There is definitely some "We want an electric car" driving our decision. Even if a gas car is cheaper we are willing to spend more to move away from owning another gas car and since we drive so little they seem to fit perfectly.

LeftieBiker said:

Mild Winters really showcase the heatpump, and the resale value in your climate would be higher with an SV. Having said that, if you really don't need the range, and just want a basic car (with heated seats and wheel!) then the S should work. You haven't made it clear, though, if you are talking about a used or new Leaf. If the latter, you can possibly (maybe not in Canada) get an SV with no heatpump (or heated seats or wheel) for less than one with with them. I wouldn't recommend one, but they are $1200 less...

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I am looking at used cars, the new ones are a bit too much to spend on a car that isn't driven much. I try to drive my cars into the ground, usually I only get the sympathy trade in value. I imagine that the battery will be shot by the time we get rid of it so not too worried about resale value. I saw a few SV's without heated seats and it really confused me until the listing said it came from the US. I am going to avoid US cars if I can just in case they came from somewhere hot.

In your climate, would not buy any LEAF without:
1). Hybrid HVAC system (aka...Heat pump)
2). Heated seats & steering wheel.

That means an SV or SL the way Nissan spec's these cars. Might also double check for DRL's to ensure it's legal in Canada.

As for the rest of the eye-candy electronics in the middle of the dashboard that comes with an SV/SL, found them to be almost worthless after using it to learn the energy consumption habits of the car. In fact, if Nissan offered an S with the heatpump & heated seats/wheel, I would go simple and pass on the rest of the electronics.

Stanton said:

I wouldn't even consider an S, if for no other reason than the heat pump.

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I know in previous model years, Nissan Canada included a heat pump on all Leaf trim levels. But that does not appear to be the case for the 2019 and possibly the 2018 models.

For the OP's expected usage, I don't think the lack of a heat pump will be an issue, especially if there is charging available enroute or at the destination.

alozzy said:

Also, your savings over a gas powered car aren't going to be all that much. I hate to say it, but you might get better value from a gas car....

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I was thinking that perhaps the OP may be better off with a used PHEV like a Chevy Volt or a Toyota Prius Plug in/Prime for the occasional long trip.

I know in previous model years, Nissan Canada included a heat pump on all Leaf trim levels. But that does not appear to be the case for the 2019 and possibly the 2018 models.

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Are you sure that previous Leaf S cars sold in Canada had heat pumps?? I've never seen mention of that before this.

instanoodles said:

There is definitely some "We want an electric car" driving our decision. Even if a gas car is cheaper we are willing to spend more to move away from owning another gas car and since we drive so little they seem to fit perfectly.

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If you drive more, you would save more on gasoline, and the electric might be enough cheaper to drive that it would make up the higher cost to buy.

Yet an electric is low fuss, low maintenance needs. It might cost more per km, and you might be very happy with it.

WetEV said:

instanoodles said:

There is definitely some "We want an electric car" driving our decision. Even if a gas car is cheaper we are willing to spend more to move away from owning another gas car and since we drive so little they seem to fit perfectly.

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If you drive more, you would save more on gasoline, and the electric might be enough cheaper to drive that it would make up the higher cost to buy.

Yet an electric is low fuss, low maintenance needs. It might cost more per km, and you might be very happy with it.

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My biggest is the low maintenance. I have always owned VW's because you can get all the factory tools you need (manual, scan tool) and there are lots of parts. Now that my back is screwed up there is always the debate between "I'm sure I can manage that job without too much pain" and paying someone to do the job. The problem is I am cheap, really cheap so what happens is I start the job and get half way through before I wished I paid someone to do it. The EV should help with that, low maintenance in general and very different so I don't have the knowledge or the tools to work on all of it.

I bet it sounds silly but I think I will be playing this battle with myself for along time. My wife was the one who wanted an EV so we do not burn gas and I though it was a nice idea. The low maintenance and some places have priority parking for EV's so I get to walk less were what hooked me on the idea.

RonDawg said:

Stanton said:

I wouldn't even consider an S, if for no other reason than the heat pump.

Click to expand...

I know in previous model years, Nissan Canada included a heat pump on all Leaf trim levels. But that does not appear to be the case for the 2019 and possibly the 2018 models.

For the OP's expected usage, I don't think the lack of a heat pump will be an issue, especially if there is charging available enroute or at the destination.

alozzy said:

Also, your savings over a gas powered car aren't going to be all that much. I hate to say it, but you might get better value from a gas car....

Click to expand...

I was thinking that perhaps the OP may be better off with a used PHEV like a Chevy Volt or a Toyota Prius Plug in/Prime for the occasional long trip.

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Never looked at the Prius but I would have loved a Volt. However my wife would have said no, visibility is terrible in it and my wife is really short making it worse.

I have a 2017 S. I bought it for commuting and for lack of maintenance. I also have 2 VW's and do all my own maintenance on those and having the Leaf is a real blessing. It just goes and needs nothing.

I wish my car had a heat pump but I don't think I would pay for it. I'm cheap too and here in CO the only time I really need heat is when the temps are below freezing (32F). At that point, the heat pump is very inefficient so the normal resistive heater takes over. If the temps were in the 40's and 50's F the heat pump would be great but I find that I can get by fine without it.

IMO, a Leaf is perfect for short trips and if you don't need to drive it more than 50 miles without charging an S should be more than enough. I can do more than that with good planning and/or in the summer but most of my trips are less than that. I've though of getting a newer car but I'll probably keep the Leaf for as long as I'm driving. Unless I move or get a new job I think it will work for me until the wheels fall off.

I’m on my second S and just do not see the need for higher trim levels considering that my driving needs are similar - stricly local. My 2017 S gives me an effective winter range, with heat, of about 80 miles round trip with the battery showing about 20% left - I don’t push it.

I keep on seeing this all the time with people "thinking" about getting an EV...

Here are my few LAWS of having EVs...

Do not get an EV if:

1) You drive very little. The real way to evaluate EVs is to determine your DOLLARS/ MILE. The EV's strength is just like when you buy a cordless drill. It is made to be used, and used often. If you do not use it much, the battery will deteriorate more quickly, and the "value" of the battery cost will be wasted.

2) You drive long distances, and expect the EV to operate just like a gas powered car. Which leads to...

3) The EV will be your only car.

4) You want to Keep cars for decades. The EV is a product that you want to ride hard and ride often. It is a fun today appliance, because you do not know when an expensive part (a low volume produced car) will go bad, and you will complain that the car screwed you.

5) Can only afford a cheap used old EV. The NEW EV is the young starlet at the ball, and does not age well.... Buying an OLD 2011-13 car is like a 20 year old marrying a well preserved 55 year old.... The next few years will be a downward roller coaster ride. You will not get the best years of the relationship.....

GET AN EV IF:

1) You drive 12K or more miles yearly, and are constantly commuting under 50 miles per trip daily.

2) Are willing to replace the battery when it gets weak because you like the low operating costs that the big expense (of the battery replacement) will give you.

3) Like to keep cars for the long run.... SO.... You buy a BRAND NEW one that you can get the best years of the vehicle. THEN you will be more willing to take a chance to roll the dice and try to keep it forever.... Even if it dies after 10-15 years, you got great value out of it since new...

That is what I am doing. I have a 2015 that I bought new. I have almost 60K miles on it, and the battery is still at 92% SOH. I am rolling the dice to see how long and how hard I can drive it.... If things go well, I will spend the money on the new battery because it has been giving me value since day one......

Do not get an EV if:

1) You drive very little. The real way to evaluate EVs is to determine your DOLLARS/ MILE. The EV's strength is just like when you buy a cordless drill. It is made to be used, and used often. If you do not use it much, the battery will deteriorate more quickly, and the "value" of the battery cost will be wasted.

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<Sigh>

First, many people want to drive an EV for reasons other than cost per mile. Until now, that was probably most of us.

Second, neither a Leaf nor a cordless drill will deteriorate if stored with a charge somewhere the middle of the range. I put less than 20,000 miles on my 2013 Leaf over five years, and turned it in with 12 bars / 87% SOH.

powersurge said:

Do not get an EV if:

1) You drive very little. The real way to evaluate EVs is to determine your DOLLARS/ MILE. The EV's strength is just like when you buy a cordless drill. It is made to be used, and used often. If you do not use it much, the battery will deteriorate more quickly, and the "value" of the battery cost will be wasted.

2) You drive long distances, and expect the EV to operate just like a gas powered car. Which leads to...

3) The EV will be your only car.

4) You want to Keep cars for decades. The EV is a product that you want to ride hard and ride often. It is a fun today appliance, because you do not know when an expensive part (a low volume produced car) will go bad, and you will complain that the car screwed you.

5) Can only afford a cheap used old EV. The NEW EV is the young starlet at the ball, and does not age well.... Buying an OLD 2011-13 car is like a 20 year old marrying a well preserved 55 year old.... The next few years will be a downward roller coaster ride. You will not get the best years of the relationship.....

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1. I VERY much disagree. An ICEV is extremely inefficient, and quite polluting, when driven for very short distances from a cold start up. The catalytic converter has not had time to warm up, and the wear during this time is accelerated as the oils have not had time to warm up and fully circulate. That's why car manufacturers specify more frequent oil changes in such conditions. The person who lives very close to work, or only needs a car to get to the train station a few miles away, or is retired and just needs a car for things like grocery shopping, is a great candidate for an EV.

2. Well, if you have the budget for a Tesla Model 3 with the Long Range (300 mile) battery, and there's good charging infrastructure (primarily Tesla's) between you and your destination...

3. If you live in an urban area with good access to car sharing/rental, or you can easily borrow someone else's car, that' s not an issue. Although I have an ICEV backup, I could easily live on just my EV; I actually have to force myself to drive the ICEV once a month for at least 50 miles to keep the car in good working order. Now if you're something like a volunteer firefighter who may have to respond to a call at a moment's notice, a pure EV (even a Tesla) may not be a good choice if that will be your only car, due to the possibility of being called out and not having enough charge on the battery to make it to the call. But that's not going to be the majority of situations.

4. There's no reason why you can't keep an EV running for a long time. There are people out there with Gen 1 (based on the Gen 2 body) Toyota RAV4 EV's, Ford Ranger EV's, and Chevy S-10 EV's (that use a GM EV1 powertrain) still running. EV1's I'm sure would be in that list had GM not taken them all back and destroyed all but a handful. BTW almost nobody keeps a car for decades in the US. The average car age in the US is 11.4 years old, and the average new car buyer keeps his/her new car before selling/trading it in is just under 6 years, according to AutoTrader https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/buying-car-how-long-can-you-expect-car-last-240725

5. Again it all depends on your needs. If you only need to drive 10 miles one way to work, there's no reason why you can't get a gently used one and have someone else take the hit for depreciation, no different than a used ICEV.

LeftieBiker said:

I know in previous model years, Nissan Canada included a heat pump on all Leaf trim levels. But that does not appear to be the case for the 2019 and possibly the 2018 models.

Click to expand...

Are you sure that previous Leaf S cars sold in Canada had heat pumps?? I've never seen mention of that before this.

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I thought I saw it a few years ago on the Nissan Canada website, but of course I don't have access to the specs now.

I'm inclined to doubt it. The S was designed as a more stripped model, and the heat pump deletion was about half of the cost savings for Nissan, I'd bet. If they'd offered it in Canada they likely would have offered it in Europe as well.

Can anyone here confirm or disprove this...?