danrjones
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Leaf and heat

Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:55 pm

I think right now they all have advantages and disadvantages.

The Leaf (maybe not the plus) can be had for a lot less money, and for an in town car only, it does quite well, even in the heat (so far), its a hatchback with good cargo space, decent warranty, and cheap to insure. I even think it looks nice.

But its not so good at road trips, fast charging in hot climates is a real issue, and may (probably does) have battery degradation issues in hot areas.

A Tesla 3 gets you into a entry level luxury segment, is good/great for road trips and fast charging, range*, etc (* depending on model and climate)
But it can be a lot pricier, there seems to be a lot of trouble getting repairs and insurance claims, and I've read the base model 3 range can come up pretty short for cold climates since it doesn't have a heat pump.


So its all about what you need. And whether the particular EV was sold to someone truthfully or not - I certainly feel bad for anyone who is facing those disadvantages on one model or another because the salesman pushed something that didn't really work for them.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

LDB415
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:00 pm
Location: Houston suburb

Re: Leaf and heat

Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:53 pm

Based on all the information given so far it seems a Prius Prime may be a better fit for my needs. For 29 out of 30 days in the month I need less than 20 miles total driving range, usually no more than 15 even. About once every 2-3 months I need to drive 4x miles to meet family and after lunch 4x miles back. Other than maybe 60-70 miles once every 2-3 months I could drive all electric with a Prime. So a Prime with a $4502 tax credit against a $27,500 or so price may be the best overall solution.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13294
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf and heat

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:20 pm

LDB415 wrote:Based on all the information given so far it seems a Prius Prime may be a better fit for my needs. For 29 out of 30 days in the month I need less than 20 miles total driving range, usually no more than 15 even. About once every 2-3 months I need to drive 4x miles to meet family and after lunch 4x miles back. Other than maybe 60-70 miles once every 2-3 months I could drive all electric with a Prime. So a Prime with a $4502 tax credit against a $27,500 or so price may be the best overall solution.
It may indeed. Just keep in mind that the Prime also, AFAIK, uses a passively cooled battery, so it isn't immune to heat related degradation, either. Maybe Sagebrush can confirm of correct that.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Leaf and heat

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:22 pm

LDB415 wrote:Based on all the information given so far it seems a Prius Prime may be a better fit for my needs. For 29 out of 30 days in the month I need less than 20 miles total driving range, usually no more than 15 even. About once every 2-3 months I need to drive 4x miles to meet family and after lunch 4x miles back. Other than maybe 60-70 miles once every 2-3 months I could drive all electric with a Prime. So a Prime with a $4502 tax credit against a $27,500 or so price may be the best overall solution.
I sold my Prius Prime when our Tesla arrived but it really is an *excellent* car.

Back in 3/2017 ...
I paid $25,500 to the least expensive dealer I could find
$900 to ship the car from NY to NM
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LDB415
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:00 pm
Location: Houston suburb

Re: Leaf and heat

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:28 pm

I really appreciate all the helpful input. I have to say in all sincerity this seems to be one of the most helpful forums I've ever participated in with the greatest number of helpful folks and none of the usual few negative types who can't wait to respond to new people while offering nothing useful.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Leaf and heat

Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:32 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
LDB415 wrote:Based on all the information given so far it seems a Prius Prime may be a better fit for my needs. For 29 out of 30 days in the month I need less than 20 miles total driving range, usually no more than 15 even. About once every 2-3 months I need to drive 4x miles to meet family and after lunch 4x miles back. Other than maybe 60-70 miles once every 2-3 months I could drive all electric with a Prime. So a Prime with a $4502 tax credit against a $27,500 or so price may be the best overall solution.
It may indeed. Just keep in mind that the Prime also, AFAIK, uses a passively cooled battery, so it isn't immune to heat related degradation, either. Maybe Sagebrush can confirm of correct that.
Not passive -- air cooled. I did some battery temperature monitoring during the summer while driving highway speeds at a moderate incline. The battery pretty quickly reached 38C and then plateaued.

So that is not bad at all. In addition,
the battery is unlikely to be used for more than one charge a day -- about 5.5 kWh
And, it is actually an 8.8 kWh nominal capacity. Toyota is *very* conservative with its SoC range.

Unlike Nissan, Toyota engineeers products to last well past the warranty and in this case that means 150k miles due to CARB.
Last edited by SageBrush on Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

danrjones
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Leaf and heat

Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:01 pm

Anyone can have a bad experience even with what are normally good cars from a good manufacturer.

I had a 2007 Camry hybrid and it had a 10 year 100,000 warranty on the traction battery
You always hear they last forever and there are plenty of Prius on the road to prove it.

Mine died at 10.5 years and 114k just out of warranty. . (Or at least one cell died, but the whole thing stops working)

After fighting with Toyota I was able to get them to pay for half of the battery, and I had to cover the rest plus the labor.
The worst part was that I called around to get the best price on the battery from different dealers, only to get there and then have them tell me their "parts" price wouldn't be honored for service. Even the dealer that did the work tried to overcharge me. I had to show them the email of the price they agreed to, and threatened to have my credit card company reverse the charges - and I already had the keys. They refunded back to the right price. (I should have checked the bill more carefully before swiping and signing, but I did catch it)

The lesson as always is that YMMV
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13294
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf and heat

Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:12 pm

SageBrush wrote:duplicate post
Do you want it deleted?
Not passive -- air cooled.
I consider air cooling without fans or A/C involvement to still be passive. Gen 1 and 1.5 Leafs are also air cooled while driving. Or does the Prime have a blower for the pack?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Leaf and heat

Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:11 am

LeftieBiker wrote: I consider air cooling without fans or A/C involvement to still be passive. Gen 1 and 1.5 Leafs are also air cooled while driving. Or does the Prime have a blower for the pack?
Air is pulled from the passenger cabin by a fan that blows it through the battery pack

Please delete the dup post
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13294
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf and heat

Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:31 pm

Dupe deleted and thanks for the Prime info. Better than no active cooling but still not much use if the car is parked in hot weather.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Return to “New Members & Newbie Questions”