SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: New owner 2012 SV & couple of questions

Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:38 am

I live in a four season climate so we chose snow rated all season tyres (the 3 peak designation.) I would not recommend S+M tyres if you have snow or ice or your roads for even one day during the year. Appropriate tyres are hands down the cheapest insurance possible for the car and the best risk reduction strategy to avoid personal injury.

We ended up buying 4 Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady for $400 installed, and then I paid ~ $80 for an alignment.

I also had very uneven tyre tread wear on my OEM tyres so I'm hoping that between the alignment and a strict rotation schedule every 5,000 miles this set will wear more evenly. If I get 30k miles on the set, that should take us to end of life for the car.

----
Second,
Trying to rely on free charging is a fool's errand for a couple of reasons:
1. The money you spend waiting for charging away from home is more than you save in electric charges.
2. A 240v connection at home has the convenience and speed your driver will want to find the LEAF a positive experience.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

jjeff
Posts: 2022
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: New owner 2012 SV & couple of questions

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:10 pm

SageBrush wrote:I live in a four season climate so we chose snow rated all season tyres (the 3 peak designation.) I would not recommend S+M tyres if you have snow or ice or your roads for even one day during the year. Appropriate tyres are hands down the cheapest insurance possible for the car and the best risk reduction strategy to avoid personal injury.

We ended up buying 4 Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady for $400 installed, and then I paid ~ $80 for an alignment.

I also had very uneven tyre tread wear on my OEM tyres so I'm hoping that between the alignment and a strict rotation schedule every 5,000 miles this set will wear more evenly. If I get 30k miles on the set, that should take us to end of life for the car.

----
Second,
Trying to rely on free charging is a fool's errand for a couple of reasons:
1. The money you spend waiting for charging away from home is more than you save in electric charges.
2. A 240v connection at home has the convenience and speed your driver will want to find the LEAF a positive experience.
Agreed :)
Your $400/4 tires installed seems like an excellent deal, for my '13S I ended up paying closer to $500 at Costco(mounted and balanced) for Ecopia +'s, do you know how yours compare to the Ecopia +'s, in snow traction, wear and efficiency? My other Leaf, a California native '12SL came with almost new summer tires that are CRAP! in the snow. In one of the first snows this winter my daughter was driving it down a moderate hill with a stop sign at the bottom and ended up sliding through the intersection and running into a curb/island on the other side of the road, causing almost $800 damage to the Leafs front end(the "A" looking piece that supports the bottom of the tire, ended up getting bent) :( I'm in a quandary what to do. The summer tires have probably 40%?? wear left and one option would be to purchase winter tires like Micheline X-ICE that would probably give excellent traction(I've never used modern snow tires) but then I'd have to play the game of switching them in the spring and fall for my summer tires(I believe Costco would do the switch for $40 for all tires if I purchased the snow tires from them). The other option would be to just purchase a decent set of S+M tires like the Ecopia's or your Goodyear Assurance and simply let Costco keep my summer tires, I believe Hemisphere?? brand. What would you do in my case? Living in CO I'd have to think your climate might be similar to mine, more snow in yours and colder weather in mine. I also wonder just how much better traction my daughter might get with real snow tires compared to the M+S variety I'm used to.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13754
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: New owner 2012 SV & couple of questions

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:18 pm

We have Toyo Celsius 4 season snow tires on the Prius, and they seem fine - except that on the Prius they largely cancel the self-centering of the front wheels. You have to turn the steering wheel to get them back centered. I don't know if it's a tire issue or an alignment issue, but it's my housemate's car and she doesn't mind. They were cheap, too: less than $400, IIRC.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: New owner 2012 SV & couple of questions

Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:40 pm

jjeff wrote:What would you do in my case? Living in CO I'd have to think your climate might be similar to mine, more snow in yours and colder weather in mine. I also wonder just how much better traction my daughter might get with real snow tires compared to the M+S variety I'm used to.
Your details differ from mine but here are the considerations we used ...

We have two EVs, a LEAF and a Model 3 and most of the time only one car is being used. It would be distinctly unusual for us to be forced to use both cars at the same time. Also (to mention the obvious,) the Model 3 can be used for any task while the LEAF is our city car. With that in mind I decided to outfit the LEAF with tyres that could handle most but not all of our winter days.

I have two sets of tyres+wheels for the Model 3: the OEM that came with the car which are NOT a good choice for winter driving, and X-ICE for the winter season. I'm not bothered by the seasonal swap since it needs to be done anyway for tyre rotation and we have the room and tools needed at home. My decision to buy another wheel set for the Tesla was based on a presumption that we would keep the Model 3 for a long time. Break-even costs are after ~ 3 years based on $180 per year ($90*2) to mount and balance.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Our LEAF works out to one tyre rotation a year for tread wear reasons. Regarding efficiency, I decided to make that a lower priority for the LEAF tyres since the car is only driven about 4,000 miles a year. So far the miles/kwh has stayed steady at 4.9 so they seem OK.

---
One other thing to mention: Cold (less than say 25F) should be viewed the same as ice and snow on the road. 3-peak rated tyres stay supple and continue to provide grip while that cannot be relied upon in tyres not rated 3-peak.

---
In your shoes ..... hmmm.
My first thought would be that the LEAF will not be around long enough to invest in two sets of tyres (let alone wheels) and the car is not going to pile on a lot of miles so treadwear rating can be ignored. So this comes down to buying ONE tyre set that get rotated every 5,000 miles or so to reduce uneven wear. I would look for a very good (not quite as good as a dedicated snow) 3-peak tyre with decent (it will not be the best) rolling resistance. You might be tempted to just use a dedicated winter tyre and with good reason, but you are constrained by the LEAF's range. American retailers do not typically report rolling resistance so I rely on the European tyre label. The names are different but you can find the American twins by matching the tread pattern.

This review
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/te ... p?ttid=231
is not bad

Here is the Michelin crossclimate
https://mb.cision.com/Public/55/9770600 ... 143382.pdf
it gets a C rating for rolling resistance on the European scale.

I'm not quite sure why but I trust this crossclimate more than the weatherReady for MN. Take with a grain of salt.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

goldbrick
Posts: 678
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: New owner 2012 SV & couple of questions

Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:51 am

Winter driving in CO is quite different than MN. To illustrate, the DOT doesn't really use salt on the roads here since the snow usually disappears on its own after a few days. There are exceptions at stop lights, etc but the amount of salt (mag cloride here) on the road is negligible compared to MN since the sun and the dryness make the snow disappear fairly soon.

With that in mind, I would think you would get better traction on the ice that is common on MN roads with true snow tires. The rubber is supposed to be 'softer' to provide a better grip on slippery surfaces at the cost of reduced life. I've seen this in action since my wife insists on snow tires for her car in the winter and they tend to only last about 2 seasons before the treads are low enough that they begin to lose traction. Studs are allowed in CO and those certainly improve stopping power although I imagine the range hit would be substantial and I'm not sure they are allowed in MN.

Also, the Leaf is a heavy car and has more inertia than a regular ICE car its size so stopping distances need to be adjusted accordingly.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: New owner 2012 SV & couple of questions

Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:24 pm

jjeff wrote:The other option would be to just purchase a decent set of S+M tires like the Ecopia's or your Goodyear Assurance
M+S (or is it S+M ?) is NOT equivalent to 3-peak rated tyres for winter conditions. Believe it or not, the M+S designation is at the complete discretion of the manufacturer and has NO required winter performance testing. It is just marketing labeling.


This is what you want:
Image
Last edited by SageBrush on Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

jjeff
Posts: 2022
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: New owner 2012 SV & couple of questions

Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:46 pm

Thanks guys, I'll look for that 3 peak with the snowflake.
Your right sagebrush, we only put 5-6k miles/year on the '12 Leaf, with it's meager 50-60 mile(summer) range(30-40 winter :( ) it's hard to put on much more. Maybe I'll try and keep en eye out on Craigslist for a decent set of winter tires although I'm guessing Costco won't do the $40(for a set of 4 tire swap, removing tires from rims, installing other tires and balancing) unless I purchase new tires from them and I'll have to check around to see how much other shops would charge to remove, mount and balance a set of 4 tires.
Goldbrick, yes we use tons and tons of salt in the winter, the roads are white with salt much of the winter, the problem is we can go months with the temps below freezing, weeks below zero but when it's that cold it usually doesn't snow.
As my daughter is going to be driving it daily 25-30 miles per day for school I going to have to do something, either scrap her summer tires and go with a set of the 3-peak all-season tires or again dedicated snows and use her summer tires just for spring/summer/fall........
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

DARaynor
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:00 am
Delivery Date: 15 Jul 2019
Leaf Number: 020338

Re: New owner 2012 SV & couple of questions

Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:02 am

Thanks so much everyone for the answers and discussion. I thought I was dreaming about the Solar and free charging yet thought to ask... I know the power requirements and the use. Our Leaf will sit outside in direct sun most of its life, and be used for errands I am guessing 1-3 times a week. I am enjoying it and our 17-year-old thinks it is kind of cool now that we have it. ECO makes a big difference when he drive it, not so much with me.

Other than alignment and inspection (DONE!), cabin air filter, tire rotation at ~5k miles, tire inflation, what else should I be doing to or for the Leaf?

Lothsahn
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: New owner 2012 SV & couple of questions

Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:11 am

DARaynor wrote:Thanks so much everyone for the answers and discussion. I thought I was dreaming about the Solar and free charging yet thought to ask... I know the power requirements and the use. Our Leaf will sit outside in direct sun most of its life, and be used for errands I am guessing 1-3 times a week. I am enjoying it and our 17-year-old thinks it is kind of cool now that we have it. ECO makes a big difference when he drive it, not so much with me.

Other than alignment and inspection (DONE!), cabin air filter, tire rotation at ~5k miles, tire inflation, what else should I be doing to or for the Leaf?
Brake fluid and gearbox reduction oil change. I forget the schedule but I think its like every 3 years. The gearbox is essentially the transmission.

I use a set of continental pro contacts all year long and was very happy with them. I think a separate set of tires is overkill unless you live in a very snowy area. Even in Michigan I've always used very high quality all seasons without problems. The Ecopias (OEM) tires are NOT good in snow/ice. The Leaf is a heavy car with a low CG, so it handles very very well.

Finally, I'd strongly recommend parking it a garage of at all possible. First, it'll keep the batter much cooler, which will make it last far longer. Second, having the car always charged and ready to go is a super convenience item. It takes ~12 hours to charge the car with 110... You really don't want to only be charging at the local restaurant.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

User avatar
SalisburySam
Gold Member
Posts: 352
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 24 Feb 2012
Leaf Number: 018156
Location: Salisbury, NC

Re: New owner 2012 SV & couple of questions

Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:08 am

DARaynor wrote:Other than alignment and inspection (DONE!), cabin air filter, tire rotation at ~5k miles, tire inflation, what else should I be doing to or for the Leaf?
Other than above:
1- windshield and rear wiper blades as needed. They will wear faster in continuous sunshine outside.
2- An OBDII dongle and a license for LeafSpyPro. There are several threads out here explain why these are just necessary...get them.
Nissan 2012 LEAF SL, 13,500 miles, 9 bars, 30-mile max range

Tesla Model 3: Long Range Rear Wheel Drive | Extended AutoPilot | Full Self-Driving
Delivered: July, 2018 | 12,500 miles
Get 1000 miles free Supercharging: https://ts.la/john70942

Return to “New Members & Newbie Questions”