Lemaign
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:17 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Sep 2019

Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:06 pm

Hi everyone,

First post here - this topic seems like it would be a hot one but I surprisingly had some trouble finding any discussion about it on these forums.

At a glance it seems obvious: figure out the range you need, and buy the version that fits the required range. Maybe I'm making this more complicated than it should be, but I wanted your thoughts on it.

We live in Hawaii, where the distances are pretty short. It's rare that any one-way trip exceeds 15 miles. The trade-off is that the traffic here is horrible (second only to Los Angeles!), it tends to be very warm year-round (air conditioning gets utilized), and there are some pretty large mountains (but what goes up must come down - on my non-plugin Prius, the downward trips easily fill up the tiny battery well before I've reached the bottom, so while we can't beat thermodynamics I know there'd be a significant recharge coming back down). We talk about the battery packs in terms of miles, but the difficulty I'm having is in terms of knowing how much loss there is due to the air conditioning, idling in traffic (with or without air conditioning), and how those mountains will affect things. The dealer talked us out of the Plus version, but this isn't a dealership that I have a pre-existing relationship with; I'd guess they're trustworthy if they're selling down.

The final consideration - and one that the dealer didn't really address, and probably couldn't - is about the future. We've read about battery care and plan to follow best practices, but nothing lasts forever. The larger the battery pack you have, the more you can afford to lose before you reach the point where the battery isn't cutting it anymore for your daily needs. We tend to hold on to our cars, and for this reason the Plus model seems like the better choice. If the rest of the car is doing well we're not opposed to replacing the battery pack if we have to... but again, hopefully that wouldn't be for well over a decade (and there's a trade-off here: while the Plus model probably wouldn't need a battery replacement quite as soon, the battery would likely be more expensive than replacing a standard battery). Or maybe EV's are still new enough that we'll just have to accept that there's no point in holding on to an EV for decades as they're still rapidly evolving, and even if my concerns for the future are valid we should just expect to have to transfer to a new EV within ten years regardless?

I'd appreciate any thoughts and experiences you all have to share. Thanks for reading!

css28
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:14 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Aug 2019
Location: Bloomfield Twp, Michigan

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:25 pm

Assuming you're not starting out on top of the mountain (with a full charge) you won't have the Prius experience of overtopping your battery.
Generally, slow traffic (even with air conditioning) doesn't take much of a toll.
If I were in your situation, I probably wouldn't put out the extra money to get a car with three times the range than you'll ever use or need.
Welcome aboard!
- Chris
----------
2017 SV, purchased 8/10/19, Coulis red

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:08 pm

Neither. A new LEAF is just way too expensive for an EV that loses 3-5% of range a year.

Choose a plug-in with at least an air cooled battery.
A Prius Prime would be close to a perfect fit for you.

If BEV is desired, I suggest looking at the Hyundai Ioniq
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13199
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:14 pm

Can you state your range needs in terms of maximum daily miles and how much weight you are giving to cost? Sagebrush is at least somewhat right about battery degradation in your Island's heat, but if you will never lose enough range to matter, or would get a new battery under warranty, then the 40kwh Leaf would work if you want the EV experience and don't want to be lugging a gasoline engine around. I'm assuming that you won't be using DC Fast Charge...? The main advantage the 60kwh Leaf offers is range, plus being better able to do sequential DC fast charges on the same day.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 9725
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:32 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:08 pm
If BEV is desired, I suggest looking at the Hyundai Ioniq
It may be n/a in Hawaii.

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/ioniq-electric/index.aspx says "Limited availability in select states.*". When you click the *, it says "Available in California, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont." This is actually a huge improvement from where it was for the longest time: So Cal only and thus virtual vaporware.

I picked the 1st zip code I found via Google search for Honolulu (I have no idea where in Hawaii the OP is and which island), of 96795 and Hyundai's web site came up with 0.

HyunKia seems pretty much not serious about selling BEVs in the US. If curious, search for Ioniq EV (not PHEV) sales at https://insideevs.com/news/343998/month ... scorecard/ and some of the year end archives at https://insideevs.com/news/344006/month ... d-archive/. I haven't noticed a single month w/over 100 units moved. Some months are in the single digits.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:40 pm

Buy in CA and ship it to Hawaii
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 9725
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:45 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:40 pm
Buy in CA and ship it to Hawaii
Might have trouble getting repairs and recall work done it in Hawaii. The dealers may have 0 training on the vehicle and be unwilling to touch any of the high voltage bits/anything unique to the BEV.

Look at the hoops folks gen 2 Rav4 EV drivers outside CA have had to jump thru. That CA compliance car was only sold and leased in CA and intended only for CA residents. Google for site:myrav4ev.com kevin spillane.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 984
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:03 pm

If they have pluses available (they are getting hard to find here in the Midwest due to demand vs. supply), and the extra 5K doesn’t throw you, I agree it’s a bit of an insurance bet on gradual degradation. It was one of the major reasons we went with the Plus. After discounts, the electric company programs, vpp, federal rebates, etc.. you generally pay way below sticker in the end (much less than the 3 or Niro), even when loaded up.

Ionic, Niro, Kona have been rationed out to the states listed above and in only small numbers (same with most other countries) hence barely escape compliance car status. Our Kia dealers here in the Midwest have no timeline for getting the car, Nor will service the car if brought in from another state. (They don’t have technicians trained for it)

The 3 is nice if you don’t need the hatchback and can afford the extra 10K (vs. Plus or 15-16k vs. the 40 Leaf).
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

iPlug
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:26 pm

How long do you plan to keep the vehicle?
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:28 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:45 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:40 pm
Buy in CA and ship it to Hawaii
Might have trouble getting repairs and recall work done it in Hawaii.
That is a fair point, even without an anecdote. Something to check on with the dealerships.

Presumably not an issue with Toyota. And by the way, I would not count on LEAF competency just because there is a Nissan dealership. I would however count on Corporate Nissan being their usual asshats.
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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