SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Greetings from the Mother Lode

Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:04 am

webeleafowners wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:13 am
I’m not sure I follow. Why would Tesla sue a manufacturer of an adapter. Seems like that would be counter to the mission.
It is not so simple. For one, adapter hacks that cause damage harm the mission.
Second, Tesla success is integral to mission success. If a potential Tesla buyer cannot rely on the Tesla destination network the mission is harmed.

Third, Tesla cannot ignore its customer base. If they object to finding a LEAF e.g. blocking a Tesla Destination charger then Tesla will take note. I fall in that group even though I own a LEAF. After all, it was my money sent to Tesla that allowed that Tesla destination charger to be built, not the money I spent to buy a LEAF. I admit to also being influenced by posts in this forum from LEAF owners who take every available opportunity to take Tesla down, yet think they should have free access to paid for by Tesla chargers.

That is not you, but the dogs in the community that bite the hand that feeds them have a negative effect.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1016
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Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Greetings from the Mother Lode

Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:47 am

Tesla destination chargers are paid for by the businesses that install them, not Tesla, isn't it? Also, isn't the power also provided free of charge to Tesla/Tesla Owner?

Do those miles count against your fee supercharging miles?
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

webeleafowners
Posts: 896
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Greetings from the Mother Lode

Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:44 am

SageBrush wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:04 am
webeleafowners wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:13 am
I’m not sure I follow. Why would Tesla sue a manufacturer of an adapter. Seems like that would be counter to the mission.
It is not so simple. For one, adapter hacks that cause damage harm the mission.
Second, Tesla success is integral to mission success. If a potential Tesla buyer cannot rely on the Tesla destination network the mission is harmed.

Third, Tesla cannot ignore its customer base. If they object to finding a LEAF e.g. blocking a Tesla Destination charger then Tesla will take note. I fall in that group even though I own a LEAF. After all, it was my money sent to Tesla that allowed that Tesla destination charger to be built, not the money I spent to buy a LEAF. I admit to also being influenced by posts in this forum from LEAF owners who take every available opportunity to take Tesla down, yet think they should have free access to paid for by Tesla chargers.

That is not you, but the dogs in the community that bite the hand that feeds them have a negative effect.
I didn’t realize equipment was being damaged. What is the nature of the damage? Do some of the adapters not fit well?

We use ours in two very specific locations about half a dozen times per year now. Having said that when our Eplus arrives I doubt we’ll need it anymore.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

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jlv
Moderator
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Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Greetings from the Mother Lode

Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:02 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:47 am
Tesla destination chargers are paid for by the businesses that install them, not Tesla, isn't it?
Tesla had a program that gave out their EVSEs (HPWC) for free to businesses that applied. It seems scaled back now, and the language that said the unit was free is no longer present (https://www.tesla.com/charging-partners). It's not publicaly known how many of the units listed as destination chargers at https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&filters=destination charger were given away for free or paid for by the business.

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:47 am
Also, isn't the power also provided free of charge to Tesla/Tesla Owner?
They are just unnetworked Level 2 EVSEs. There's no way for the location to automatically bill for connecting to one. Not all of them are public however; some locations (hotels, restaurants) reserve them for customers. Some places allow non-customers to charge for a nominal fee.

E.g., the 3 located in Rockland ME:
https://www.plugshare.com/location/120444 (free to the public)
https://www.plugshare.com/location/69751 (free for overnight guests, $10 otherwise)
https://www.plugshare.com/location/129321 (overnight guests only)
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:47 am
Do those miles count against your fee supercharging miles?
No. These have nothing to do with SuperCharging. That is DC charging and a whole different system. (And the Tesla-to-J1772 adapter does not work at SuperChargers)
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Tesla X 100D (12/18)
85K 100% BEV miles since '14
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jlv
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Re: Greetings from the Mother Lode

Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:04 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:04 am
For one, adapter hacks that cause damage harm the mission.
I've not seen any reports that these adapters cause any damage.
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Tesla X 100D (12/18)
85K 100% BEV miles since '14
ICE free since '18

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Greetings from the Mother Lode

Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:21 pm

jlv wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:02 pm
Tesla had a program that gave out their EVSEs (HPWC) for free to businesses that applied. It seems scaled back now, and the language that said the unit was free is no longer present (https://www.tesla.com/charging-partners). It's not publicaly known how many of the units listed as destination chargers at https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&filters=destination charger were given away for free or paid for by the business.
This is true as a matter of record but I'm positive that examples of Businesses that paid for Tesla destination chargers are very, very rare. The only examples I know of are people who own and charge their own cars at their place of business and also allow guests. It follows simply because a business that is paying out of pocket has every reason to buy a J1772 EVSE instead.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

jjeff
Posts: 1952
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Greetings from the Mother Lode

Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:08 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:21 pm
It follows simply because a business that is paying out of pocket has every reason to buy a J1772 EVSE instead.
Unless like webeleafowners said, the merchant purchasing the EVSE was EV clueless and simply purchased the wrong EVSE to be compatible with all current EVs, never underestimate cluelessness, it's rampant :lol:
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
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'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
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Calaveras
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:41 pm
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Location: Gold country California

Re: Greetings from the Mother Lode

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:02 pm

I am also in the MotherLode area. I learned quickly to ignore the miles on n the GOM. It takes me 20 miles to get to work and 40 miles to return on the same route. The difference is elevation.
I get snow which is doable, but cables are needed. I am not willing to get snow tires for 10 days per year
2016 Leaf S bought used in 2017
2017 Soul EV bought in 2019 for spouse.
Daily commute is 55 miles round trip with a 1,900 foot elevation climb on the way home. Gold Country California

WetEV
Posts: 3158
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Greetings from the Mother Lode

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:10 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:04 am
For one, adapter hacks that cause damage harm the mission.
What mission?

Your mission might be different from the hotel.
Ask the hotel, they will probably say the mission is to sell hotel room stays.
Third, Tesla cannot ignore its customer base. If they object to finding a LEAF e.g. blocking a Tesla Destination charger then Tesla will take note.
Hotel will say "we signed a contract that gives us control over who uses that charge station".

You want us to turn away a paying customer? Why?
After all, it was my money sent to Tesla that allowed that Tesla destination charger to be built, not the money I spent to buy a LEAF.
So, VW is paying to build the Electrify America network. Will we see your Tesla there?
I admit to also being influenced by posts in this forum from LEAF owners who take every available opportunity to take Tesla down, yet think they should have free access to paid for by Tesla chargers.
Free access? Hotel room isn't free.

The world doesn't revolve around Tesla. Not yet.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

Ancient1
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:17 am
Delivery Date: 20 Sep 2019
Leaf Number: 316654

Re: Greetings from the Mother Lode

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:51 pm

Hey, Calaveras! Glad to see someone nearby posting! I'm guessing you must live around Arnold, if you are gaining 1900 feet of elevation on your daily drive. I am in Columbia. To get to my house involves climbing 1000 feet in 2 miles, which takes about 12 miles off my range. I only gain about 3 miles on the downhill trip - not fair!
I just installed a Siemens VersiCharge EV2, so will be able to do something other than trickle charge from now on. (18 hours - really?) Costco has them on sale for $60 off. I have a 40 amp circuit, but the Siemens only outputs 30, so it is a little slower than some, but for what I consider a relatively reasonable cost, it should be adequate for our needs. I also just got an OBD-II unit, and loaded LeafSpy on my I-phone, so now I just have to learn what that system is telling me. So far, it is just gibberish, but I hope to figure it out soon.
I haven't yet purchased the Tesla to J1772 adapter, as I doubt we will really need it. I am a little surprised at the strong objections that some posters have evidenced to the use of such an adapter. I very strongly doubt that they are "illegal", as one put it. I give Tesla full credit for having the foresight to develop an infrastructure to support their vehicles, but I think it is unfortunate they didn't go with a "universal" arrangement rather than make their systems exclusive to just their cars. To me, that's like BMW saying their cars will only run on Shell gas, so no one else can use it. To each his own, as the saying goes.
2019 SV plus - scarlet ember / black - weather, technology
2007 Acura MDX
Siemens Versicharge EV2
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