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Re: How is Leaf on snowy hills

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:08 pm
by SageBrush
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:12 pm
We have the Toyo Celsius on the PIP as I've mentioned before. It is a 4 season Winter tire, meaning it is essentially a Winter-biased all-season tire. It is good in snow and the only issue I've had with it is the car's steering doesn't want to self-center any more with them on all 4 wheels. It doesn't resist being centered manually, it just doesn't do it by itself.
These choices are very much driven by local climate and household status. We are a 2 person household with a LEAF that is only driven for chores and the Tesla that is used for longer trips. I elected to put 3PMSF 'all season' tyres on the LEAF for year round use and to buy a winter set of tyres and wheels for the Tesla in addition to the OEM set. I don't have any problem swapping tyre sets twice a year at home for the Tesla since I would rotate them anyway.

This is probably overkill for my climate but we do get >4 inches of snow a couple times each season and temperatures drop into the 20s F (and rarely into the teens) for a couple months each winter season. I figure this is good value to reduce the chance of a wintry day accident.

Re: How is Leaf on snowy hills

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:25 pm
by jjeff
JayCan wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:15 am
I live in Kingston ON Canada now but have lived across Canada including both coasts and central/northern areas. I grew up in Manitoba just north of you.
The only province that has mandatory snow tire regulations is Quebec. However, most everyone who drives 2-wheel drive cars in winter conditions installs winter tires if doing a fair bit of city driving. The tires with a winter rating are identified by a snowflake in a mountain-like triangle. The rubber compound is soft so will adhere better in cold, icy conditions. Because the rubber is quite soft, they wear quickly in warm conditions. Most people don't install them until temps don't go above 10C (50F) and take them off early in the spring. Usually, you have a cheap set of alloys or steel rims with the winter tires mounted and not worry about the TPS for the several months you have them on. Popular brands are Michelin Ice-X or Bridgestone Blizzak, but almost every manufacturer makes a winter type.
Mud and Snow (M+S marking) are a good option if you don't get temperatures too much below freezing but want good traction. I have used them on trucks and SUVs before and you can use them year round. They don't have the soft compound, but have a more aggressive pattern for snow. The downside is they have more road noise.
Check local laws for the use of studs in tires. Central and southern Ontario does not allow studs (they are hard on the roads) but northern areas that have less population and are colder and get more snow are allowed to use studs. It differs by area/province. I have used studded snow tires before and they do provide better traction but are NOISY.
There are cheaper brands than the Michelins. I'm trying Sailun Ice Blazer WST1s because of lots of good reviews. Yes, I am swapping out my rims and tires twice a year, but I can do that myself.

Hope this helps!
Thanks, yes it helps. Note our friends are definitely in a rural area, the nearest large town(100k) is 2hrs away! they live just north of Lake Superior. In MN more people should really use snow tires but actually they aren't very common to see, I've never used them. Many people have AWD SUVs or Pickups but from what I've been reading, good tires are almost more important than AWD(4WD).
Think I'll be checking out Costco this weekend :)

Re: How is Leaf on snowy hills

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:57 pm
by goldbrick
jjeff wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:25 pm
from what I've been reading, good tires are almost more important than AWD(4WD).
Think I'll be checking out Costco this weekend :)
only if you care about stopping :lol:

AWD/4WD makes a big difference when going up hills or how fast you can start from a standstill but once the car is moving the tires define the handling

Re: How is Leaf on snowy hills

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:38 pm
by DaveinOlyWA
SageBrush wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:08 pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:12 pm
We have the Toyo Celsius on the PIP as I've mentioned before. It is a 4 season Winter tire, meaning it is essentially a Winter-biased all-season tire. It is good in snow and the only issue I've had with it is the car's steering doesn't want to self-center any more with them on all 4 wheels. It doesn't resist being centered manually, it just doesn't do it by itself.
These choices are very much driven by local climate and household status. We are a 2 person household with a LEAF that is only driven for chores and the Tesla that is used for longer trips. I elected to put 3PMSF 'all season' tyres on the LEAF for year round use and to buy a winter set of tyres and wheels for the Tesla in addition to the OEM set. I don't have any problem swapping tyre sets twice a year at home for the Tesla since I would rotate them anyway.

This is probably overkill for my climate but we do get >4 inches of snow a couple times each season and temperatures drop into the 20s F (and rarely into the teens) for a couple months each winter season. I figure this is good value to reduce the chance of a wintry day accident.
It took this post for me to realize you are not in Colorado any more...

Re: How is Leaf on snowy hills

Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:49 pm
by SageBrush
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:38 pm

It took this post for me to realize you are not in Colorado any more...
.
Alas, quite true

Re: How is Leaf on snowy hills

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:38 am
by dmacarthur
We live at the top of a long winding driveway in Vermont, and absolutely love the Leaf with studded Nokians. It does reduce the miles per KWH but worth it for safety and traction.

Re: How is Leaf on snowy hills

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:01 am
by jjeff
I'll know better the first significant snowfall. I just purchased true snow tires(Michelin X-ICE 3's) for my '12 that had summer tires last year and was awful, couldn't make it up a 1% incline if it was snow-covered. My '13 with Ecopia +'s was quite a bit better but not great, I'm hoping for very good with the snows, studs aren't allowed in MN.

Re: How is Leaf on snowy hills

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:43 am
by LeftieBiker
dmacarthur wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:38 am
We live at the top of a long winding driveway in Vermont, and absolutely love the Leaf with studded Nokians. It does reduce the miles per KWH but worth it for safety and traction.
At least some Nokians are Low Rolling Resistance (LRR), without studs.

Re: How is Leaf on snowy hills

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:30 pm
by frontrangeleaf
Denver saw a 50 degree drop in temps yesterday today, pretty significant snowfall to go with it. High yesterday of 80, today 26.

First drive with the Leaf in genuinely cold temps, messy snowy roads with the new snow tires. We bought Conti WinterContact SI tires in 205/50R17, mounted to our original wheels. Tire design basically mimics the Michelin xIce3s, at about half the cost. Not sure if it's technically a LRR tire or not. However, we did hit about our normal average once I raised the pressures a bit. So not too bad (4.3 mi/kWh in warm temps yesterday).

Today I checked, and sure enough, tire pressure was down 5# all around, right in line with what I'd expect (about 1psi per 10 degree change in ambient, as a rough rule of thumb). With pressures low, snowy roads, and all kinds of heaters running, we only had 2.7 mi/kWh today. Taking this as a bit of a worst case scenario though (albeit with only 1 day of data, so let's not over-interpret here...), we'd have in the neighborhood of 150 miles of range under these conditions.

That's not too bad in my mind. We can work with that.

As to handling, with proper tires in good condition, no problems whatsoever. Drove in eco mode B. Good traction, well-behaved, no traction control or ABS events today. There are some hills in my commute too. Good result.

Re: How is Leaf on snowy hills

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:45 pm
by Titanium48
26°F / -3°C is far from worst case, even if it is snowy. The heat pump will still work reasonably well at that temperature, as will the traction battery. Things will get much worse as it gets colder. Battery capacity will go down, regen will be limited even at moderate SOC, and the heater will draw much more power. If you see temperatures below -20°C / -5°F, expect half of summer range or less.