CarlFlat
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:54 am
Delivery Date: 12 Oct 2020
Location: Long Island, NY

New Member, trying to get off the fence

Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:50 pm

I’ve been lurking on this forum for a while, on and off, thinking that a used Leaf could work for me, but, reading about all the battery uncertainty kept me from getting too serious. Buying a used Leaf is NOT easy! I am ready to engage the helpful folks on this forum, as I’m trying to get off the fence and seriously shop for a Leaf.

I’m interested in a Leaf because most of my driving is within 30 miles, but I’d need a comfortable 80 mile R/T potential to feel that the investment is worthwhile, for me.

I’ve been subscribed to CarGurus and I get listings on a regular basis. I originally thought I’d aim for a 2016 or older, but moved up to considering 2017s because it would give me some more peace of mind by having a longer warranty coverage on the batteries, although there seem to be few 2017s for sale.

One question I have is, should I let Consumer Reports dissuade me from considering a 2018? They single that model year out as having a very bad “Reliability” rating, but they identify it as the “second generation” Leaf. Does this “redesign” represent a lot of value and balance the reliability hit, in terms of value? Is that poor reliability rating deserved?

That said, prices I’m seeing seem mostly to be based on the number of miles the car has been driven, rather than the model year. I understand how that works on ICE cars. Would folks, here, say that miles under it's belt is the best determinant of the value of any given Leaf with the same size battery, irrespective of year?

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15518
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: New Member, trying to get off the fence

Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:00 pm

The reliability rating of the 2018 is likely due to issues with Pro Pilot, which is part of the optional "Tech Package" so you can avoid that. Also an issue is more than a few bad cells in the battery packs. This can be avoided by using LeafSpy Pro and a compatible Bluetooth dongle to look for weak cells in a prospective purchase. The 2018+ Leafs use the same basic body structure as the previous Leafs, and even the same motors, but they have much more energy dense batteries, and the upgraded hardware needed to get about 50% more power from that motor. There are also numerous interior changes, including a new dashboard. The nose and tail are also new. I'm going to link to my used Leaf buying guide. I don't really have much on the Gen II Leaf in there yet, but I'll be adding it soon.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... 2&p=538030
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

CarlFlat
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:54 am
Delivery Date: 12 Oct 2020
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: New Member, trying to get off the fence

Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:28 am

I have several different issues/questions, at this point. I'm not sure if they belong in different threads, so I'll start here and hope to get guidance.

1) I have not found detailed instructions on how to use LeafSpy Pro.( I have tried using the Search function in this board, but had minimal success) I believe that I need the Pro because my phone is iOS. Please guide me to details on using LeafSpy... but it raises another question: Is it likely that a dealer would allow me to connect a dongle to their car's computer? Should I avoid buying from a dealer?
a) There are Certified Pre-Owned 2018s and 2019s out there at dealers - is Certified Pre-Owned worth anything? ...or am I better off staying away from dealers.
b) I'm getting the feeling that I might get better value from a later 2017 with more miles at a lower price, than a 2018. Would people concur on that? IOW, 2018 and 2019 cars still have plenty of issues and paying up for newer models will not buy me as much peace of mind as it might intuitively seem.

2) In the "Used Leaf Buyers Guide" and in other discussions I'm seeing it said that the battery packs are covered by an "8-year, 100,000 mile warranty". That's NOT what I'm seeing. I'm seeing "84month, 100,000 mile warranty" which is only 7 years.

SageBrush
Posts: 5280
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: New Member, trying to get off the fence

Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:58 am

CarlFlat wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:50 pm

I’m interested in a Leaf because most of my driving is within 30 miles, but I’d need a comfortable 80 mile R/T potential to feel that the investment is worthwhile, for me.
You need to add clarity here. A car that fits varies A LOT depending on whether you are talking about
80 EPA miles ? OR
80 miles the way you drive, any day of the year in your climate ?

Then you need to to discount the range 5% a year to account for battery degradation. This point is LEAF specific
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2097
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: New Member, trying to get off the fence

Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:55 am

I would go with a 2018 if you want "in most weather" 80 mile round trip ease. Sure, many 30kWh Leafs can do it, but would be dicey in very cold weather and degradation is a concern. The 40s and the 62s seems to be holding a much narrower range of degradation than previous batteries.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

WetEV
Posts: 4009
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: New Member, trying to get off the fence

Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:55 am

SageBrush wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:58 am
Then you need to to discount the range 5% a year to account for battery degradation. This point is LEAF specific
BS.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

PrairieLEAF
Posts: 119
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:58 am
Delivery Date: 04 Feb 2019
Location: Weld County, Colorado

Re: New Member, trying to get off the fence

Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:47 am

Welcome!

I am a very satisfied driver of a 2016 LEAF S 30 kWh w/ Quick charge package that I purchased used and feel it is an excellent fit for my driving and budget. I live rurally, several miles off the pavement. Nearly all my driving is at least 25 miles each way, and I have never gotten close to being stranded.

I am not very concerned with battery degradation or warranty. I have probably voided the battery warranty by missing a battery check-up or two, and this one shows no noticeable degradation after 4 years. I am able to keep it garaged almost all the time, however. If I had to park outside during the day, I may have chosen a different model.

I do not find preowned 2018+ LEAFs to be very good values. If I needed more capacity, I would look into a preowned Chevy Bolt. They have 60 kWh of capacity and have started to come down to $14.5-17k, which I see as an incredible EV value.

An 80 mile round trip in inclement weather could be a challenge with a 30 kWh LEAF, but I have no problem boosting up a bit on a public charger, if just to avoid cutting it too close.

Last week, I completed a 97.9 mile round trip and used 80% charge. I was thoroughly impressed! Much of it was hilly interstate, but I stayed behind slower traffic and never went over 65 mph, and no heat or A/C was used.

Best wishes! I am completely hooked on EVs, and hope I never have to go back to combustion with a primary vehicle.
2016 LEAF S-30 w/QC "Lexie"

alozzy
Posts: 1605
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: New Member, trying to get off the fence

Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:34 am

CarlFlat wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:50 pm
I’ve been lurking on this forum for a while, on and off, thinking that a used Leaf could work for me, but, reading about all the battery uncertainty kept me from getting too serious. Buying a used Leaf is NOT easy! I am ready to engage the helpful folks on this forum, as I’m trying to get off the fence and seriously shop for a Leaf.

I’m interested in a Leaf because most of my driving is within 30 miles, but I’d need a comfortable 80 mile R/T potential to feel that the investment is worthwhile, for me...
Please add your location to your signature. Depending on where you live, a 30 kWh LEAF may or may not meet your needs...
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

CarlFlat
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:54 am
Delivery Date: 12 Oct 2020
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: New Member, trying to get off the fence

Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:08 am

PrairieLEAF wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:47 am
....I do not find preowned 2018+ LEAFs to be very good values. If I needed more capacity, I would look into a preowned Chevy Bolt. They have 60 kWh of capacity and have started to come down to $14.5-17k, which I see as an incredible EV value.....
I think you've identified the horns of my current dilemma.

If I could get away with the 2017/30kWh Leaf and keep the cost down below $12k, I'd be happy. But if I have to spend another $5k or more for a 2018 (or 2019, which is available in the same ballpark), why wouldn't I choose one, like the Bolt, that gives me range to spare for about the same money? (I'm not seeing comparable Bolts below $17k).

IOW, is a 2019 Leaf so much better than a Bolt that I leave all that extra range on the table?

That's a real question. Perhaps some of you have the answer(s).

goldbrick
Posts: 966
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: New Member, trying to get off the fence

Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:20 am

My $0.02 is that here in CO you can buy a new Leaf for less than a comparable used one. It depends on your tax liability and other factors but if you can swing a new one, that is often a cheaper alternative. And +1 on a used Bolt. I'm personally not looking for one but I've read here that there are great deals to be had there and they appear to be a solid design.

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